R25 EDBD Rudder

[NorthernFocus]

We haven't even taken possession of our boat yet (2008 R25) but the list of issues/upgrades is already growing. One of the things I don't like about the boat from a design standpoint is that tiny rudder. It looks like it was designed with the high end of the speed range in mind and reliance on the thrusters for dock maneuvering. I'm more accustomed to large surface area rudders on full displacement hulls which allow you spin the boat around with the appropriate level of power applied. Another issue is controlability in a trailing sea (which I've seen mentioned in a couple of threads hear on TugNuts) So...

1) Do the newer models have a bigger rudder?
2) Has anyone come up with a third party design/mod for a bigger rudder?
3) Is it a non-issue and the boat handles just fine at low speeds and/or in trailing seas?

 

[knotflying]

Leave well enough alone. I recall someone experimented with a larger rudder and the result was not good. You may get better maneuverability at lower speeds, but it was too temperamental at higher speeds. When docking, bursts of power and thrusters do the trick. Never really had an issue with following seas.

 

[Levitation]

Well, full displacement hulls and large rudders does not describe a Ranger Tug. More descriptive of Nordic Tug, American Tug, Northern marine, Cape Horn, Diesel Ducks, Fleming, Kady Krogen, etc.
As Mike commented, changes to the rudder system, very likely will not improve an R-25 tug. All boat hulls are hydrodynamic compromises carefully balanced by the naval architect. Change something and the balance is no longer there.
Yes, the small rudder makes slow speed maneuvering require more skill.
Knowing the skill level of their usual customer, like me :mrgreen:
they added the thrusters.
That does not mean you cannot maneuver the tug with rudder and power alone, you just have to work at it a bit more.
Now, as far as 'improvements' Tug owners are great improvers. Peruse the photo albums and you will see their handy works.

cheers and welcome aboard.

 

[Ken Boyd]

At idle, the R-25 handles very predictability going forward but you have little or no rudder control going in reverse. The reverse control situation is further compromised by the large cabin area and the relatively shallow draft of the R-25 which allow it to be blown around by light breezes. Controlling the vessel when backing with prop torque and blasts of power is not predictable given the cabin area that catches even light wind puffs that overwhelm the prop torque thrust vector. To compensate, the factory installed fore and aft thrusters which provide the necessary level of low speed control.

Underway, the control situation is not so much compromised by a following sea as by a quartering sea. It makes for a very unsettled ride with a lot of helm correction needed to stay on course but in fairness to the blue water captains, my experience is in the relatively shallow sounds of North Carolina that are churned up with very short duration wind driven waves. I do not think longer duration ocean waves would present as much of a control problem.

With respect to modifying the rudder, recommend you discuss any potential modifications with the factory before you proceed. All boat designs are compromises and I am sure the R-25 designers made a deliberate decision on the rudder size they selected. Contact Andrew Custis and discuss the issue with him, he is very helpful and should be able to provide you the rationale the factory used in selecting the rudder size that they did on the R-25.

 

[NorthernFocus]

I guess that is no to all three questions. Thanks for replies.