R27 Classic Hydraulic Steering

[Smcavana]

On our 2011 R27, new to us as of late last year, the wheel has a little play and turns 4-1/4 turns pin to pin. If we mark the center rudder position (by turning the wheel back 2-1/8 revolutions) and then repeat the process, the center is no longer in the same position, and it keeps moving if we repeat the process more times. Is this normal with hydraulic steering (we're used to mechanical steering on our sailboat) or does it indicate a problem-- air in the hydraulic lines? Also, how can we eliminate the "play"?

 

[Tug Travelers]

Hi Michael and Susan, Jeff with Tug Travelers here. We had an R27 Classic and noticed the same thing. Being hydraulic it your center position can change. We (when we got our R31) got a Garmin rudder angle indicator. The nice thing about that is that it plugged into our auto-pilot control unit in the back and the indicator appears on our autopilot display as well as our chart plotter without having to run any wires.
On John's boat Invictus (also an r31, and also a Tug Traveler) they mounted it with bolts on the transom near the rudder (obviously). On mine we used a piece of wood and 5200 adhesive to stick the unit on the fiberglass and it has worked really well for 2 years now.
I can get model numbers and photos for you if you want.. It may take a couple days, but I'm happy to go get them.
Let me know

Jeff
Tug Travelers Guided Flotillas

 

[Smcavana]

Jeff - thanks for the feedback. A rudder angle indicator is on our wish list, so if you have time to share the part numbers and a pic or two, we'd really appreciate it. Thanks again.

 

[TexasEye]

Yep!

I have a 25 Classic...when we purchased her I did my normal para-cord whip on the centre rudder position on the top of the wheel. I went out and did the basic maneuvers and docking practice and the cord kept moving from the centre position, I had whipped the cord around a spindle and couldn't figure how it kept moving. I dug thru my boat parts (junk) and found a mechanical Davis rudder indicator and stuck it on the hub...after my first practice session I remembered hyd. steering the wheel is constantly changing it's relative centre… now I just hard over to starboard and then count to centre and make minor adjustments as needed... Question is WHY does it change???

 

[TexasEye]

Could it be AIR in the Hyd System???

 

[BB marine]

Question is WHY does it change???

Could it be AIR in the Hyd System???

The Helm is a Hydraulic pump. It pumps fluid to the steering cylinder at the rudder. The direction you turn the wheel is the direction the pump is moving the hydraulic fluid. There is a small amount of hydraulic slip ,the wheel doesn't always center to the exact spot. There is nothing wrong with the system.

 

[Red Raven]

Note that if you turn on the autopilot to rudder is controlled without the steering wheel moving. Thus the center of the wheel will change each time autopilot is engaged/disengaged. If it changes even without the autopilot being engaged (I haven’t confirmed this is the case on our boat) I suspect it is somehow related to the autopilot system. Perhaps there is some sort of pass thru of hydraulic fluid at the stops. Never been an issue for us.

 

[BB marine]

Its called Hydraulic slip. All hydraulic helms have a slight amount of hydraulic oil that slips past the vanes of the pump. I learned about this the hard way many years ago when I delivered a Velocity high-performance boat. The customer complained that the steering wheel was off. I adjusted it and test ran the boat and it was off again. I bleed the system thinking it had air. Same thing again. It had Lathem marine Hydraulic steering, Called for technical assistance and was informed that is normal with hydraulic helms. Its called Hydraulic slip.

 

[Red Raven]

Thanks Brian, makes sense!

Curt

 

[knotflying]

Silly question, but why would you need to know the position of your rudder? I am more concerned about the direction of my boat. Whatever position my rudder is in is of no concern to me as long as the boat is heading the way I want it to go. The only time I really care about rudder direction is at anchor and then it is a matter of looking at my rudder through the space between the stern and swim platform.

 

[Tug Travelers]

Knotifying-
In close quarter maneuvering when the boat is not moving forward or backward, it is nice to know where the rudder is.
Also, in hard weather (say we are quartering into some big seas) I use it to see how hard my steering is working to keep me on course. If I am going all the way to the "stops" that means the autopilot is doing everything it can and struggling, so I generally take over manually steering at that point.
Jeff
Tug Travelers Guided Flotillas

 

[TexasEye]

Thanks Brian, Good to know it's normal...