STOVE

[Northerner]

I am about to order an R-23, but I am hoping that the factory can delete the standard Alcohol stove in favor of a WALLAS kerosene stove that also can function as a 4,000 BTU heater.
More info is available here... http://www.wallas.ca/ Look here... http://www.wallas.fi/index.php?id=57 for the WALLAS 800 stove and the 220 blower heater lid. They have 5L and 10L fuel tanks that should store easily under the cockpit decking.
If the factory can delete the stove and NOT do the cut-out on the counter top I can have the dealer install the WALLAS equipment.
BTW - this is far less expensive that having both the KENYON alcohol stove and The WEBASTO diesel-fired heater.
Of course, if the factory wants to do the installation of the WALLAS that'd be terrific!

Also wondering if the factory can delete the two canvas window coverings for the aft bulkhead seeing as I plan on completely enclosing the cockpit with a canvas enclosure making these coverings redundant. I would have no use for these and hate waste.

And finally, I'd like to upgrade the speakers in the cabin to BOSE 251 speakers to improve the sound, so it'd be great if the factory could delete these as well.

Thanks...!

 

[NorthernFocus]

If you think you will use the heater a lot, the Webasto is far superior to the Wallas. I have hundreds of hours of use on both and there is no comparison for effective heating and for reliability. The combo unit seems like a good idea but WHEN it breaks down you are without both heat and stove. With separate units you only lose one so might salvage a trip. Though for a stove propane is far superior to alcohol. More complicated but cooks much better. The simplicity of alcohol is nice but they don't put out the BTUs and tend to vaporize and discharge unburned fuel into the cabin. Doesn't bother many but makes my eyes burn pretty bad.

 

[knotflying]

I had the Wallas on my C-dory and I have the Wabasto on my Ranger. My choice would be the Wabasto with a propane cook top. The Wallas can be finicky if your battery voltage gets low. Heat rises so your top part of the cabin gets warm, but not the v-berth so a good fan will help. It also takes a while for the stove top to get to temperature and controlling the heat is difficult.
With the Wabasto we are as warm as toast in about 5 minutes and just about that time the coffee is done! The best of both worlds.

 

[Scuffy]

The trouble with the Wallas it does both cooking and heating but neither all that well. Cooking with it when it's warm out will roast you out of the cabin. They are crazy expensive to purchase for what they are IMHO and expensive to have them serviced if they ever need it. Only one game in town for Wallis service. I would vote for the Webasco heater and a propane cook top as Mike mentioned. That combo would be cheaper than a Wallis by it's self. Some folks cook with a couple of those single burner portable butane cartridge type stoves which are cheap and work surprising well.
I would think if you go with the factory propane setup and have the dealer or yourself install the Webasco. That might be more feasible.

 

[doke01]

I like my Wallas. It's what Ranger put in the first R-25s. I've only had to tear it down once for maintenance in 10 years and it was pretty straightforward and only needed to be cleaned. It's also heated up the boat in 20 degree weather with no problem and is hyper fuel efficient. The cooktop also works great.

 

[rick&sue]

I second Doug Kersten. I also like the Wallas stove/heater. No propane in the boat. Burning propane consumes oxygen and adds moisture to the cabin. No explosion issues. Wallas has a burner that exhausts outside the boat - no fumes; helps keep the boat dry. Very compact and light weight - which is important in a small boat. Uses diesel fuel- very fuel efficient.The small diesel tank lasts all season. Unit is 10 years old - replaced the igniter once. Down side - takes time to build heat and learn how to use it effectively, very expensive to purchase, and if you have to send it in for service - it is expensive. For us, the positives far outweigh the negatives.

 

[sleepyboat]

I just took delivery of a 23 and with folks asking questions about cook tops and combo heat-cook, I looked at that area of the galley this past weekend. If you install anything larger than the footprint of the supplied stove, you can kiss the silverware drawer good bye. Maybe a single burner propane and a Webasto if you want efficient heat from both.

You really cannot enjoy your speakers at any speed and when stopped I thought the Duals were just fine. After seeing what the salt water environment can do to low and high voltage wiring and connections, I would save the money and enjoy what's there.

The factory sends out the canvas as a package so you might want to sell them to someone who loses them overboard.

The assembly line does not work well with change. I wanted some add-ons and was nicely told that because of the demand for the 23 and the build schedule that would not be possible. Maybe when things calm down you could be accommodated.

Have your dealer talk with the factory so you can plan ahead. Good luck.

 

[NorthernFocus]

In my experience hearing differing views on the Wallas over the years, it seems to boil down to(no pun intended) hours of use. Generally speaking heavy users and/or picky cooks tend to be less fond of the Wallas. Likely because reliability becomes more of an issue with heavy use and controllability of the cooktop is an issue for picky cooks. Not saying there aren't exceptions but if generalities can be made that is how I'd generalize the discussions I've been a part of.

For my own part, I used a Wallas cooktop/heater for five seasons for both functions and an additional season as cooktop only (after installing Webasto heater). We burned about six to ten gallons of fuel per season with it. Over that time period I eventually replaced every functional component in the unit other than the burner can and the heater top blower. Fuel pump, circuit board(s), combustion fan, and igniter(aka glow plug) all failed. Plus probably another half dozen times the fuel pump had to be cleaned out because tiny bits of grit in the fuel would cause it to lock up. I hate to think what the cost would have been had I not done all that work myself. It is possible that we just had a "lemon". But having become intimately familiar with the unit I feel confident in expressing the opinion that it is not a "robust" design for serious usage.

On the other hand, we've been running a Webasto heater now for seven seasons with a similar per season fuel burn without a single failure and zero maintenance. Though I did clean the fan blades when I removed the unit from our old boat to install it in the R25 🙂

As an aside, when the Wallas combustion fan failed I ordered one from the dealer in Seattle at a cost of $60. Later(unfortunately) I found the same part on line for $1.25 :cry:

 

[NautiTug]

Does the 23 A/C include rev cycle heat like the other models?

 

[knotflying]

Does the 23 A/C include rev cycle heat like the other models?

That would be fine as long as you were on shore power. I would want heat while at anchor as well.