Strange Trailering Questions

K

Kamalani

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
208
Fluid Motion Model
C-24 C SE
Hull Identification Number
FMLT2122
Vessel Name
Kamalani
MMSI Number
338094507
Being new to trailering our R-21EC, which until now has lived in a marina slip in the harbor, I am curious about two things....

Diesel fuel purchased at a marine fuel dock is dyed red. I presume this is so that if spilled, the operator is more
likely to be caught "red handed". When buying fuel at the corner gas station, will Diesel #2 be dyed?, and if not, are
there any regulations as to running this fuel on our waterways?

Secondly, we have always had an issue with fuel sloshing out the overflow vent, as well as the vented fuel cap. We
hope that we have found a safe effective solution to the overflow, and maybe can solve the cap issue with a gasket
of some sort. I'm actually more concerned about spilling fuel while trailering over the road than I am about at sea.
Does anyone have any experience with a similar problem? ... or have any advice about this?

Thanks!
Alex, "Kamalani"
 
The red dye in the fuel is to show that it is "off road use." It doesn't matter to your engine. If you are caught with red-dyed fuel in your on-road truck, you are in trouble; not so with un-dyed fuel in your boat.

Regarding the fuel slosh: we try to not trailer with a full fuel tank; up or down hill can cause spillage. We see that at the ramp at the marina where I worked this summer, with boats spilling fuel as they launched (fuel up on the road where it's cheaper, and spill it out on the ramp on the way down).

Hope that helps.

Best wishes,
Jim B
 
Alex,
Your concern with spilling fuel on the highway over that of spilling it on the water is for a lack of better terms, backwards. If you spill fuel in the water there is a good chance you can get fined very heavily! On the road, not so much.....

The cost of fuel on the water and the land can vary quite a bit. In Port Orchard Washington, I just paid $3.49 per gallon for diesel. The marina in Port Orchard is currently charging $3.06!

This is due to the fact that in Washington, they do not charge the road tax on fuel at the marinas! It makes it cheaper to fill on the water. Not so in California or Nevada though! I found this out the hard way when we brought Solitude to the PNW a year ago. I fueled her at a local service station to "save" money to find out from Dave on Lobo that I actually overpaid!
 
During our five week cruise in southern California a few weeks ago I paid $2.75 for diesel on land (red dye) and $3.40 at the fuel dock.
I always get on the internet and find out where the closest red dye supplier is to the marina we are launching. Depending on where we are it may not be that great of a savings.
I am grateful for the internet that allows me to research all this in a matter of minutes. As you can see with the numbers above I saved around $100.00 with about five minutes of research. I never tow full of fuel. I will try to fill up if it is cost effective just before we launch. I also carry one of those 20 gal roll-able fuel tanks with a gas pump filler handle in the truck. If along our way on the road we find a really good deal or when I fill up with red dye on the road because it is cheaper then the fuel dock I fill it up.
It is nice to come in from a few days out at the islands and top off my main tank again without going to the fuel dock.
 
Stuart - I'm still a bit confused... red dyed fuel is available on land also? I thought that it was restricted to marine fuel docks. I understand now the reason for dyed vs. un-dyed, (thanks guys), but still not sure which fuel I will be getting on land. When you refer to dyed fuel purchased "on land", is that at a marine location that has both pumps at the dock as well as on shore?

Karma makes a good point as far as the penalties for spillage. I was just thinking about the obvious nature of a fuel discharge while creeping through LA freeway traffic, everyone nearby a witness. It makes a lot of sense to trailer with tank half full and fill up as needed after arriving.

Thanks for a valuable lesson.

Alex
 
Alex,
If you have a commercial truck drivers license, you can buy red dyed fuel at truck stops. There are also some locations that sell it for farm equipment. The red dye indicates that there is no road tax on that fuel. I do not believe California would not charge road tax even on fuel sold at marinas..... The state is broke and needs every dime it can get. The only place I have ever seen fuel cheaper at a marina is in Washington. Now I am sure there are others out there, I just have not seen them.
 
Hi Alex,

Just clarify your question about diesel that is dyed red. This dyed fuel is not subject to the same taxes that diesel fuel for road or highway use is subject to. This dyed fuel is considered for "off road" use in construction equipment (bulldozers, steam rollers, excavators, etc.) or farm equipment (tractors, combines, harvesters,etc.) or marine use. They do not apply the highway use taxes to this fuel, as it is considered for off road use and therefore is normally cheaper at the pump than diesel that has been properly taxed for highway use (for diesel engine cars, pickups & commercial trucks). That is why you can get into trouble running dyed fuel in your highway use vehicle, it has not been taxed for that purpose. There is no issue running undyed highway use fuel in your boat as your engine doesn't know the difference and there is no statute against it. The dyed fuel that you have encountered at the marina's is not that color to bust you for spills but to indicate that it is for non-highway use and as such has not been taxed.

Hope this helps.

Eric
 
Use of red dye in "tax free" fuel is intended to make sure we all pay our road use taxes. Red dye fuel is legal in tractors, generators and off road machinery which should include boats. I have been told that some states apply road use tax rules to their waterways making red dye illegal in boats. However, I have not been able to confirm this. I do know that all the SE US states allow red dyed fuel use in boats. I am fortunate to have a farm fuel pump near my home so I fill up every spring before I launch LENABELL.

By the way some states are very aggressive about enforcement in road trucks. Alabama DOT will visit you with a "dip tube" and sample fuel from your truck fuel tank to check for presence of dye. Examples that I have seen were due to someone reporting alleged the offender. Fines are severe as this is considered tax evasion. You could be subject to jail time for this in my home state. This does not apply to a bed mounted fuel transfer tank for equipment - only fuel tank used by truck.
 
Greetings from Illinois,

According to an official State of Illinois brochure it is illegal to have red dyed fuel (no road tax charged) in a diesel boat operated on the waters of Illinois. Go figure. This was brought to us by legislators looking for every $ available to subsidize waste and corruption. We've had 3 governors serve time during my voting years and we are the home of an impeached Rod Blagoavich.

Tuggin Aweigh
 
We, in the US, aren't the only folks with this dye in the fuel issue. It's an issue between countries in Europe, and maybe even provinces within countries. Sometimes it appears to be impossible to operate legally; laws (taxes and whatever)pertaining to cars, motorcycles, boats, aircraft,etc produce those problems.

Alex, the fuel spill fine recently increased from $800,000 to $854,400. I know it applies to the water ways, don't know about elsewhere.

Fuel coming from the filler and the vent is an issue I've mentioned before. To minimumize it: Remove the 180 degree vent fitting from the tank. Install a 90 degree fitting, pointing it starboard. Get a vent line that will reach the starboard side. Install an adjustable external vent fitting on the starboard side. Adjust the run of the fuel line so that it approaches the external vent fitting (which may also require adjustment to help attain the correct run of the fuel line) from above and so that it runs downhill to the 90 degree fitting on the tank. Remove fuel inlet fitting (the one with the hand operable cap), replace it with the same type fitting usually found deck mounted, ie., flush mounted fitting. I've heard the newest R21ECs have the modified vent system.

When towing, you might keep the fuel level about four inches from the top of the tank. I've never had any spill when towing or launching with a full tank (with the modifications listed above).


Gene
 
Another issue with the red 'off road' fuel is the sulfur content. The 'on-road' non-dyed fuel is 15ppm sulfur and the dyed red 'off-road' fuel is 500ppm. Check your engines requirement for required sulfur content. Putting 500ppm fuel into a modern diesel on-road engine could damage the engine or its components.
 
The red dye I get in Oxnard Ca on land is low sulfur. The place i get it tells me that they fill up boats all the time.
As of today the price is $3.00gal and it is $3.48 at the fuel dock. The fuel dock also said that there fuel was low sulfur red dye.
They are the same. The only difference is $75.00 savings on a fill up on my R-29 on land.
Hope this helps.
 
Kamalani: The answer to your question of red dye in the fuel at your corner station is no. The real reason for dyed fuel is so that states can check truckers fuel. Fuel dyed red is general cheaper and is considered off road. Used for produce trailers and frozen food trailers. Farmers also and as you noted, marinas. Although not to cheep at the latter.
 
Highway Fuel sold at pumps must be Ultra low sulfur. Low sulfur is what we had used until a few years back. According to my local farm supplier the older low sulfur is still available as some older machinery need it and the red dyed fuel sold for off road in my area may sometimes be a blend of low and ultra low sulfur fuels. I do not know if marinas have a separate source but if their fuel is procurred from same source as the farm/off-road pumps in my area then they would have the blended fuel. According to our local suplier there is no way to predict sulfur content of red dyed fuel at pumps. My Yanmar is the older mechanical design which can burn either fuel. I do not know if that is so on newer electronic controlled engines
 
Regarding the vented fill/cap, I replaced mine with a non-vented version I purchased from the factory, and have had no leaks from that source. I also moved the vent to the starboard side, increasing the length of hose from tank to vent. This has also eliminated leaks from the fuel system. There are posts regarding this about 1 1/2 years ago on this site. WJC
 
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