Sudden Battery Loss - Non-starting issue

KentSidel

Member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
19
Fluid Motion Model
C-248 C
Vessel Name
Sarah Grey
Hi, Tugnuts,

For the first time yesterday my trusty Yanmar 110 did not crank.

Got it started by using emergency parallel switch and a battery charger.

Once started, alternator output was fine on all battery banks.

I suspected bad engine and thruster batteries, but a check at the local battery shop showed both OK.

I've cleaned all terminals and cables.

Oh, and the thruster will give just one rev before it dies. Battery level goes WAY down to about 10 volts.

Anyone ever had such a sudden loss of starting power or thruster performance?

Kent
Sarah Grey
2008 R-25
 
Sarah:

Batteries can be very puzzling and frustrating for many of us, me included. It seems if the batteries were up to par you would not need to use a charger in conjunction with the parallel switch when you did start them. If it were me I'd have another shop put a good load test on each battery....to get a second opinion. How old are the batteries? I see you have a 2008 Ranger Tug, so if they are the original it may be time to replace them. If you do you should replace them all at the same time. Please get back to us when you've worked this out so we can learn from your experience.

Jim F
 
I have found that sometimes the load tests are not reliable. I kept loosing battery voltage. After making sure there were no voltage leaks I finally charged up the batteries and did a load test and it showed the batteries were good. I charged again and tested the cells with a hydrometer and discovered 2 cells bad in one battery and 1 in the other. These were the house batteries. Replaced the batteries and no problems since. Walmart sells #27 flooded batteries for around $65.00 with a one year unlimited warranty. They are made by Johnston Controls, one of the top battery makers. You can't beat the price or the warranty
 
Kent: I'm curious to know what your current battery brand & model is, their age and are they all the same ?
 
Since you have problems with both starting and the thruster that started at the same time I would check ground connections very carefully, such as on the engine block and the ground bus bar (if you have one). Also tug on the cables to be sure there is no corrosion under the shrink wrap inside the terminal ends.

Howard
 
Howard is on the right track. Grounding has been an issue for Ladybug, Too more than once. After topping off my wet cells with distilled water I failed to reconnect one of the jumpers. The charger still worked and I did not have a clue until my volt meter showed a difference in the float voltages with the charger on. Then I saw what I had done and after a few expletives the problem was remedied. It really plays hell with the thrusters as the joy stick controller will automatically shut them down on low voltage. That joy stick is really a PLC and lists for $530.00 so when one fails it is painful, at least to my wallet. Darn printed circuits!

Pat, Ladybug, Too
 
Battery care information
Battery First Aid

Posted: September 1, 2012

Your batteries demand just a little attention, so don’t deprive them.

By: Deane Hislop

Marine batteries come in three chemical types: flooded, gel and AGM. The amount of attention you should give your batteries to maintain them in top condition depends on which type you have.
Flooded batteries are the least expensive of the three and require the most maintenance. Flooded batteries contain a liquid electrolyte (sulfuric acid) that evaporates and must be replenished by topping off each cell with distilled water at regular intervals. Flooded batteries produce hydrogen gas, so they must be properly vented to allow the gases to escape into the atmosphere. The compartment or space in which they are located also must be adequately vented.

Gel batteries are sealed and are considered maintenance-free because their sulfuric acid is mixed with other ingredients to form a gel-like substance that does not evaporate and never needs replenishing. The hydrogen gas that’s generated is reabsorbed and reused inside the battery, so it needs little or no ventilation. Also, because there is no liquid that can spill or leak, gel batteries can be tilted or installed on their sides if necessary.

Like gel batteries, AGM (absorbed glass-mat) batteries are sealed and maintenance-free. They can be installed at any angle, and they do not discharge hydrogen gas. They’re also the heaviest and most expensive of the three types. AGM batteries are generally more tolerant of being deeply discharged without causing damage.

All the batteries in a battery bank should be of the same type, because charging voltages vary from one type to another. Sticking to a single type in a bank will ensure consistent and optimum results.

Since flooded batteries require the most maintenance, we’ll start with them. The water levels in each cell should be checked at least once a month and distilled water added before fluid levels fall below the top of the lead plates.

Charge the batteries and let them sit overnight. In the morning, apply a 15- or 20-amp load to each for a minute or two to remove any remaining surface charge, and then check the voltage by using a portable multimeter across the terminals. A fully charged wet-cell battery reads about 12.6 volts across the terminals. Anything below 12.4 volts indicates it’s time for a new battery.

Another test for fully charged flooded batteries is checking each cell with a hydrometer, a turkey baster with a float inside, to measure the specific gravity of a fluid. The electrolyte has a higher concentration of acid and therefore a higher specific gravity, at least 1.265, than it does in a partially or fully discharged battery. All cells should read within a few hundredths of each other. One dead cell kills the entire battery, but often the problem is sulfation of the plates, which can sometimes be reversed with an equalizing charge applied by a three-stage charger.

Although gel batteries and AGM batteries are sealed and “maintenance-free,” their posts need to be kept clean and lubricated. Loosen and remove the cables, then clean the posts and the cable clamps or ends with a wire brush. Be sure to securely retighten each cable when you replace them.
 
knotflying:

I have the stock factory 'flooded' batteries in my boat. I've checked the liquid levels in all 4 batteries over past 3 and a bit years and have not found there to be any reason to top the cells up. The levels have been consistent over these past 3 years or so.

I must say I'm surprised by this and am starting to think that maybe something is amiss or that maybe my eyesight is faulty -- but even the engine technician doing my 250 hr engine service last week assured me the battery liquid levels were AOK.... :shock:
 
Interesting that you have not had to add any water. I have used my boat close to 200 hours and have topped the cells off twice. Each time adding alomost a qusrt of water between all four batteries.
 
Three years without adding any water to flooded cell batteries ??
time for new batteries...and technician...maybe have the new tech check the old tech's 250 hour service.
 
SlackwaterJack":1nl1mzzy said:
three years without adding water to flooded cell batteries ??

It must be related to the PNW climate -- maybe. I should ask fella Tugnuts in my local area to find out what they've experienced. I'd hate to think my boat is 'unique'. :lol:
 
Geography doesn't matter...a wet cell battery looses water when it charges.
There will be a bit more evaporation as a climate is warmer and/or drier, but that's in addition to normal charging losses.

After 3 years of use and charging without adding any water, a flooded cell battery would be bone dry...any water added after it has dried out would be pointless. Adding tap water will also cause permanent damage...distilled water only must be used. Depending on the brand and level of care..many batteries are shot after 3 years anyway...in-activity can be worse than constant use.
 
SlackwaterJack":2g6k9owz said:
Geography doesn't matter...a wet cell battery looses water when it charges.
There will be a bit more evaporation as a climate is warmer and/or drier, but that's in addition to normal charging losses.

After 3 years of use and charging without adding any water, a flooded cell battery would be bone dry...any water added after it has dried out would be pointless. Adding tap water will also cause permanent damage...distilled water only must be used. Depending on the brand and level of care..many batteries are shot after 3 years anyway...in-activity can be worse than constant use.

What can I say... I'm not lying about this... and why should I ?

Repeating... I've not added liquid to any of my 4 flooded cell batteries since boat was delivered from factory in Aug 2009. I check them approx every 3 months or when taking boat out and by my engine technician at the 50 and 250 hour servicing, and no liquid has been added as liquid level was where it should be.

T'is a mystery.... right ?
 
I am in the northeast and have a lot of equipment with three year old batteries that have never needed water. The worst equipment is stuff that stays on a perminent charger such as lifts generators and boats. Som chargers overcharge a bit causing water loss. If you are using a lot of water have your charger checked to insure it shuts off or properly switchesto low.
 
I live in the south east and my batteries 27 type from wal-mart have never had water added either, 5 years on my trolling motor batteries which are constantly charging and 2 years on my starting battery. I dont think I have ever even thought about adding water until now :lol:
 
Batteries, batteries, batteries. This discussion has evolved and exhausted the battery debate. I agree with Howard that it could be related to grounding - perhaps involving a major component. That stuff can be checked with a good multi-meter...as I have done. Just be careful what you contact and seek help if needed. I've made frequent calls to Andrew, my local guys, Blue Seas and Pro Mariner...all were more than helpful and I'm no electrical engineer. Good luck!
//Bud
 
I've discussed this issue of never having to add water to any of my 3 year old stock factory flooded cell batteries with several people in my local area. All, without reservation, say this is not that uncommon and any thoughts about the batteries being sub-par should be dismissed. I will make one last call to the Ranger factory to get their inputs.

I will also take hydrometer readings for each battery cell to see what that may reveal. 😱
 
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