Thoughts After Season 1 on Lake Erie

[dfogal]

My new-to-me 2015 29-S just arrived at the marina for cleaning and haul-out before winter storage. After one season with the boat (and 140 hours of engine time) I had a few thoughts to share. I would love to hear your comments/feedback.

Lake Erie is MEAN

We thought we would prefer to have the boat near the cottage on Lake Erie rather than near the house on the Detroit River. We didn’t understand that meant many fewer boating days available to us. Lake Erie is often restless with big waves with a very short period and sharp peaks.

Lake Erie is Unforecastable

We have tried Windy, NOAA Forecast, 4D Weather and all the other services we could find to get a reliable forecast of the lake. At 0-2’ wave heights the lake is pretty comfortable. At 2’ you get peaks of 3-3.5’ which is a bit high, but acceptable. Unfortunately these forecasts often change dramatically over a six hour period. You plan a day on the water, check the forecast, get to the marina and find out that the last update changed everything. Does anyone have a service that is accurate?

The 29-S Rolls a Lot

Please share your experience. We find that we get a lot of rolling when not underway and frankly quite a lot even when we are underway. I put an inclinometer app on the iPad and we regularly see 15 degrees each direction when stationary. What experience do you have? Any idea how much she would heel over before quitting and capsizing? This question is related to points #1 and #2 above.

The 29-S Bangs a Lot

I expect this is due to the short period of the waves on Erie. By steering at 45 degrees into the wavefront and managing the throttle it’s possible to lengthen the period between the wave fronts but often it’s not possible to do this when the waters are very disorganized. I joke that our boat is a fair weather friend - a way to remind myself that we should not go out in suboptimal weather. When you come down off a wave front the boat bangs pretty hard. The wood groans a lot too.

Thoughts? Am I doing it wrong? For those of you in real seas - what are your experiences with Sea Kindliness?

The 29-S can Handle a Lot

I made an error and we wound up on Lake St. Clair in very poor weather. Expecting 2’ waves with occasional rogues we instead saw 4’ peaks with higher rogues. The boat did fine (nothing damaged or hurt) but it was not fun.

Plans to do Better

Next year we will keep the boat at a marina on the Detroit River. Day-trips can be more common and there’s enough interesting things to poke around and amuse ourselves with. If the US/Canada border is open, there’s lots of great marinas and restaurants on the US side to visit.

We will also do our first loop next year. We will go up to Huron, down the Trent Severn and poke around in the 1000 islands. If the border is open we will go to Oswego and back to Lake Erie. If not - we will boomerang the other way. This will give us some lock experience and more time on rivers and canals. Our boat loves those.

Please share your thoughts/feedback? Overall I can’t wait to get back out there next year.

 

[FWTMD]

While referred to as semi-displacement hull shape, the R29's lean more to the side of a planing hull shape.

That's what helps give it the speed.

The lift that gives that comes in part from the amount of deadrise it has. (The amount of V in the bottom at the stern.) That gives lift but also brings buoyancy from the edges (port and starboard) to the center, reducing its stability at rest.

The Cutwaters are more planing shapes, with more deadrise.

Whether that action is a lot, or a little, becomes "compared to what?" And its hard to say more when not seeing the marina conditions that lead to that experience. But if there are other boats in the marina of similar size that seem more stable, take a look at their hulls after they are pulled for the season.

A marina with better protection might solve the issue. Especially if all of the other boats there are rocking and rolling too.

 

[Magnet Engineer]

We splashed our R29 in Erie late last August having great expectations for this year. With 35 years of Lake Erie and Ontario boating experience and over 60 years living near the lake. I find you are pretty much right on weather. We traveled the full southern shore this summer and watching carefully had pretty decent cruises. But there were many other days of water washing the roof. And a few days were we turned around and went back in when the forecast was definitely wrong.

One weather aspect this summer that may have adversely affected you was the unusual amount of east wind. The fetch over a couple hundred miles would have made your boating unpleasant.

I agree with the rolling action of the R29 being a bit unsettling. However we are not stationary to often. It is pretty miserable when the channel entrance is full of other impatient boaters.

I use all of the forecast tools you mention and MarineWX. What it provides are a number of weather stations along the lake shore and allows me to see the normal weather pattern approaching from the west. Or this year from the east. It covers all of the Great Lakes. Plus we have a couple of weather buoys several miles offshore Erie for day trips.

Lake Erie and all of the Great Lakes are real seas.

Our plan was to see the North Channel this year. But things changed. So Put in Bay to the west and the Erie Canal and Watkins Glen to the east sufficed. We were tied up alone at a winery on Seneca Lake when an R27 pulled up. The only other Ranger Tug we saw cruising. The North Channel remains a top goal for a cruise. Perhaps we will see you next year.

 

[S. Todd]

These are interesting comments about the roll, and I wonder what your experience is to compare it to. A sailboat with a weighted keel would definitely roll less. We have a 2015 R25SC that we have had on all the great lakes except for Lake Ontario (did Lake Simcoe and Trent Severn instead). Our test drive of a 29S indicates it had less roll and less pounding than the 25 (more weight and wider beam so this is expected). We had 5 Sea Rays prior to our Ranger Tug and in my opinion there is less roll and no more pounding in the Ranger Tug. I have watched other nearby boats of similar size in marinas and believe there is typically less rock and roll in the Tug. I believe that the very low placement of the diesel engine in the Tugs attributes to this characteristic. One of the reasons we found the Tug an acceptable change from the Sea Rays was that when the great lakes get nasty (which is frequently) we generally almost always cruised at trawler speed. This reduces the pounding no matter what you are driving. The one thing I found the Sea Rays better at was following seas, with the IO and more horsepower, with one hand on the throttle and one on the wheel you could surf the bigger waves much better and safer. (One of the best rides I had was from Lake Erie Metro Park to Pelee Island in 4 to 6 footers with small craft warnings that had been out all day. Very few other boats were out that day, and I would not have wanted to be traveling into the wind. That ride with the Ranger Tug and the rudder rather than the IO would not have been as safe or pleasant.)
I always listen to the NOAA forecasts on the great lakes and half believe them. Sometimes 5 miles one way or the other can make all the difference. My rule of thumb is: stow everything before leaving the marina, with the heaviest items as low in the boat as possible, close all hatches except the ones I need for ventilation and that I am ready to close when conditions get ugly while hanging on. That said I have boated on Superior, Michigan, Huron and Erie when they have each been as flat as a mill pond.

 

[Dubs]

I have the R31-S and don’t like the roll. Even with 10’ beam the boat is not that stable. In a 10 knot NW in the central Sound yesterday we certainly could not troll broadside the waves like lower profile aluminum fishing boats do. At fault is the limited beam, hull shape and center of gravity. Many 31 owners who never trailer their tug would prefer a beamier boat. Longer keel and bigger rudder would also improve seaworthiness.

 

[trailertrawlerkismet]

The roll of a boat is relative!!!!! Relative to what one is used to, relative to what kind of water conditions we are in and relative to the depth of the water we are in. As a personal experience we had a 40’ trawler we thought had more roll to it then what we thought it should have but with the 27 RT we felt the roll was better then the 40’ in the same kind of water/condition. With that said our 29 is even better then the 27 in the same situation. With that said the final element is ones tolerance for roll, some people don’t mind as much as others.....I’m not talking about the knock the dishes off of the counter type of roll just the normal stuff. Lake Oneada will be worst then Lake Erie which is worst then Lake Michigan is is worse then the ocean.....all being relative. Just my thoughts.

Jim F

 

[Red Raven]

Agree with Jim. On our trip to Alaska last year our partner boat was a 55 foot Ocean Alexander with a 15 foot beam. They still roll and in some conditions it was worse for them than for us on our R27C. In other conditions it was much worse for us. When taking waves on the beam if the wave period is significantly longer (or shorter) than the beam there is less roll. When uncomfortable roll encountered we just adjust our course and speed to deal with it and choose our anchorages carefully.

Curt

 

[dfogal]

Lake Erie and all of the Great Lakes are real seas.

Our plan was to see the North Channel this year. But things changed. So Put in Bay to the west and the Erie Canal and Watkins Glen to the east sufficed. We were tied up alone at a winery on Seneca Lake when an R27 pulled up. The only other Ranger Tug we saw cruising. The North Channel remains a top goal for a cruise. Perhaps we will see you next year.

Thanks. If COVID is under control next summer - we want to do some of the same routes you did this year. For day boating though - we will keep the boat on the Detroit River.

Our boat is As You Wish - hope to see you next summer.

 

[dfogal]

Lake Oneada will be worst then Lake Erie which is worst then Lake Michigan is is worse then the ocean.....all being relative. Just my thoughts.

Jim F

Hi Jim - what makes Lake Michigan tough? I have heard it referred to as ... Lake Bichigon ... but never really heard why. I wondered whether the Ocean near shore might be reasonable because of the much longer period of the swells. I have no experience there though.

 

[dfogal]

Longer keel and bigger rudder would also improve seaworthiness.

Has anyone upgraded their rudder? Worth it?