Water lock

[Capt. Wanabe]

I apologize for resurrecting the horse but I am re-introducing the subject (with a PC title per Slackwater Jack) as I have a question that bears asking. I have just purchased a new R27 with the 4BY2 180 HP Yanmar. I have previously owned an R25 with the Cummins. THIS time I decided to read the manual cover-to-cover before I even took possession of the boat. On page 34 the manual states:

"NOTICE: If the vessel is equipped with a water lift (water lock) muffler, excessive cranking could cause sea water to enter the cylinders and damage the engine. If the engine does not start after cranking for 10 seconds, close the thru-hull water intake valve to avoid filling the muffler with water. Crank for 10 seconds or until the engine starts. When the engines does start, stop the engine immediately and press the switch to the OFF position.
1. Open the seacock (if equipped).
2. Open the fuel cock.
3. Turn the battery master switch (if equipped) ON.
4. Put remote control handle in NEUTRAL.
5. Ensure lanyard is connected to emergency stop switch.
6. Attach lanyard to clothing.
7. Turn key switch to ON. Ensure that the instrument panel indicators are power and working. CAUTION! NEVER hold the key in the START position for longer than 10 seconds or the starter motor will overheat.
8. Turn key switch to START. Release the key switch when the engine has started.

Note: Once the engine has started, the ECU will raise the engine speed to 1080 rpm to start alternator charging, and then reduce to low idle rpm."

:shock:

If some of you recall, two years ago the Cummins was frequently in the posting because of a factory ECU problem that caused hard starting and poor performance. Posters frequently cited the need to restart the engine many times before it would actually run. No where in those postings was any mention of a limit that the engine could be started before encountering "water lock" issues. Now the Yanmar manual states I have one shot at a successful start or I go through a long list of steps to clear the water from the exhaust before getting another chance at a clean start. I know that manuals are now written with some input from the legal department :roll: so could some of you diesel geniuses let me know if this is a real concern and I should follow the manual exactly or if it can be cranked more than once before going through the obnoxious series of steps listed. Andrew?

 

[SlackwaterJack]

This will be my only contribution to this thread...then I'm putting up more Christmas lights.

Not too sure about "big boat" diesels, my diesel experience tops out at about 40 hp...but opening the seacock that they had you close sounds reasonable. The rest looks like the standard legal boiler plate that passes as starting instructions these days. It's probably repeated many times throughout the manual. The lanyard thing kills me..anyone actually do that (other than with a jetski or snowmobile)?
-fuel cock is probably already on (you just got the engine started then turned it off)
-battery switch is probably already on (you just got the engine started then turned it off)
-neutral position...probably already in neutral or it won't start (you just got the engine started then turned it off)
-here's a secret lawyers won't tell you..it will actually start without attaching the lanyard to your clothes..so you can be naked 😱
- #'s 7 and 8 can be found in any manual for anything that has an electric start gas/diesel engine.

Excessive cranking can cause the dreaded water lock, but I don't consider a couple of 10 or 20 second attempts excessive ( the pump turning at starter motor speed would take considerably longer than that to move a gallon of water to the muffler. That said, closing the water intake sounds like a very good idea if the engine decides to be somewhat reluctant...they're just reminding you to re-open the seacock after you get things sorted out. The procedure won't drain the muffler ...the running engine does that in seconds...they don't want you to fill it in the first place, so they say to shut off the water supply....and that, of course activates their Legal Dept. and hence the "manual's starting sequence" is repeated yet again.

 

[tuggertoy]

Even though I have finished with my Holiday decorating, I promise that this will be my only contribution to this thread as well. I will hold SlackwaterJack to his promise and he can hold me to mine.

Most water lift muffler systems have a low point drain on them so that they can be properly winterized or decommissioned for any other reason. If there is any concern about excessive water backing up from the water lift muffler, along with closing the seacock to stop sending more water into the exhaust during a prolonged hard starting event, the low point drain on the muffler could be opened to remove any of the water that is already in the system. On my R-21 Classic there is easy access to this drain. I cannot speak for the setup on your new R-27.

I have now returned my whip to its case and locked it in the shed for the winter so any horses, dead or alive are safe. That is at least until spring or until I have to unlock the shed to get out my snowblower, whichever comes first. 😉

Eric

 

[RProffer]

You can chide the legal statements, but when it comes to getting your engine fixed under warranty, if you do not follow the book, then Yanmar won't honor the warranty. I understand Yanmar is a real stickler for following the book.

It appears each type engine has different requirements concerning the riser/mixer. I would recommend breaking out your engine Service and Operation Manuals and take a look see. Not everything is listed in the charts. You have to read the text also (OMG - read the book !?!? 😉 :lol: ).

 

[doke01]

My 4 yr. old Yanmar 125 HP has never taken more then a few seconds to start. Even in cold weather (a second or two more in the coldest weather but nothing close to 10 seconds). If it is taking that long to start there are probably other issues.

 

[commander bill]

In my experience my R25 engine, any previous Yanmar marine engines, and all my friend's Yanmar diesel tractors in my experience always start immediately down to 20 degrees F. All these have been mechanically controled engines so I can not speek for newer electronic engines. I have seen other diesels become harder to start but never a Yanmar. I would strongly suspect a problem if one would not start immediately (fuel blockage, valve closed, etc)

 

[Andrew Custis]

Yanmar has to state that to cover themselves. There is certainly truth behind that. If you crank on the engine too long not allowing the belt to turn and evacuate the water, water can enter the cylinders. Has this happened on a Ranger Tug? Never. There are some strong words in this post. Yanmars do "not" have issues turning over. From the first mechanical Yanmar engine to the new electronic ones, we have never had a starting issue. If you indeed have trouble with the Yanmar starting, it wont be due to the electronics or ECM.

When I deliver a boat or someone that might ask me about this, I simply tell them one thing. Do not continue to crank the engine without it starting until you figure out what the issue is. I cannot tell you how many times you can crank an engine without it starting before you will ingest water to the engine. But I do know if it takes a Yanmar more then 10 seconds to start, you actually have an issue.

I do believe the procedure you state is a good one to follow in this scenario.

Cummins had an automatic time delay in the key system that only allowed the engine to crank for approx. five seconds at a time.

 

[commander bill]

10 seconds????? My Yanmar will start in 2 seconds or less after over a month at 20 degrees.