Yanmar 4BY2-180

Bluejacket

Bluejacket

Active member
Joined
Dec 18, 2021
Messages
36
Fluid Motion Model
C-28
Hull Identification Number
FMLT2715H112
Vessel Name
Bluejacket
In my second season with our 2012 R27 powered by the 4BY2-180. 2 weeks ago, we went out for a 2 hour run, anchored for lunch; brought up the hook and went 50 yards when the engine quit. The mechani diagnosed a "weak or questionable fuel pump". Just had it replaced today and was told, "This is not the first replacement" After 1260 hours, should this engine be on it's third pump? Should I carry a spare?
Thanks as always to all -
Bluejacket
 
Had a similar issue and suspected the pump, but found the Fuel Pump relay and block in the ECM had burned contacts and not turning on the pump. By bypassing the relay the pump ran and was able to start the engine, New relay and mounting block, and all is fine.

Bill
 
Following. We have the same engine. I found an aftermarket fuel pump in the spares that came with the boat. Others have reported on the issue with the relay and plug. It seems they’re the more likely culprit than the pump itself. Nevertheless, it’s good to have a spare. And some extra wire in case it needs to be powered directly in case of issues with the relay.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thank you all for your replies - lots of info to digest. I first need to have a look at the relay & socket. Will update as more information becomes available
Thanks again - and - Keep On Tugging
Bluejacket
 
Thanks to BB Marine for the link. I did find the fuel pump relay and socket were toast. The relay was easily available from NAPA as one member posted. The socket is another issue. As another member experienced, I could not find it anywhere. In steps Paul, the local NAPA parts guru. He identified a universal connector (NAPA Part # EC23), that will fill the bill. It comes with 5 leads, but the un-necessary fifth is easily unpinned. It also does not have the clips to hold the lugs on the relay, but a zip tie will serve. Thanks once again to everyone for the sage and useful input.
Keep On Tugging -
Bluejacket
 
Bluejacket":1ni3w339 said:
Thanks to BB Marine for the link. I did find the fuel pump relay and socket were toast. The relay was easily available from NAPA as one member posted. The socket is another issue. As another member experienced, I could not find it anywhere. In steps Paul, the local NAPA parts guru. He identified a universal connector (NAPA Part # EC23), that will fill the bill. It comes with 5 leads, but the un-necessary fifth is easily unpinned. It also does not have the clips to hold the lugs on the relay, but a zip tie will serve. Thanks once again to everyone for the sage and useful input.
Keep On Tugging -
Bluejacket
Click to expand...
Hallelujah! I will be at NAPA first thing TOMORROW! I had my local NAPA guys look into it, but no joy.
 
I have been following this post and saw that BB marine had linked my post into this one-- sorry I didn't realize folks were struggling to find the universal socket as well as the BMW replacement. I believe you will find there are actually only 3 wires required as the 2 "87" terminals are the same and only one is used. With the universal socket it may be possible to put the relay in a couple of different ways so be careful to make sure you have matched the wires and orientation. I now have about 14 hours on the new fuel pump and replacement relay and socket and see no further signs of overheating. If you have an opportunity to get a amperage reading with your pump I would be interested to hear what you find. I am still leaning to a failing fuel pump increasing current draw that was the cause of my grief.
 
2islanders":gsmnvl21 said:
-- sorry I didn't realize folks were struggling to find the universal socket as well as the BMW replacement.
Click to expand...
I went to the local BMW dealership parts counter. The guy behind it immediately recognized my boat as a Ranger Tug even though there are only two classics around here. Anyway, he tried to determine what socket would work. I gave him your intel that a 2002 BMW 540i was one model that used it. He could not come up with a sure bet part number. If you have that BMW part number, could you please share it? Thanks.
 
Sorry, I never did get a part number. I had a BMW auto wrecker much closer than the BMW dealer who also claimed he could match it up. Took the relay with me and within a few minutes the auto wrecker fellow came back with 3 sockets from that vehicle that were a match complete with nice heavy gauge leads in perfect condition $20 each. Both the dealer and the auto wrecker said bring the relay and they would match a socket to it. By the way if the leads are in the wrong place I found it impossible to move them around. They latch in each one on all 4 sides. I Hope you can have the same success with relay in hand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Just looked at the bottom of one of the sockets. It has a BMW stamp on it and a number 1389113. Perhaps that will help. Also the colour of the top doesn’t seem to matter. I have 2 white and a green one. Original was blue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I finally installed the "NAPA universal relay socket" yesterday. I unpinned the unused two contacts, and also rewired the 3 used connections with lighter gauge wire to match those coming from the harness. Additionally, I took the original socket that had the slide that mounts to the board, cut it in half and drilled a hole in it. I zip tied the new socket and relay to this and mounted it in the original location. Up and running again. Just one lingering question - what may have caused the relay to toast in the first place?
Thanks to everyone for their input, suggestions, observations &c. Couldn't have done it without you.
Bluejacket
 
Bluejacket":24ufmw2q said:
…. Just one lingering question - what may have caused the relay to toast in the first place?…..
Click to expand...
I have spoken with the service manager at Mastry Engines in St. Petersburg, Florida about this issue. He firmly believes the blown relays and scorched sockets are caused by restricted fuel feed to the electric fuel pump, either by filters or at some other point, causing high amperage draw by the pump.

An electrical engineer friend who dealt with very large relays in his career looked at the scorched socket in my ECU and said an under voltage condition can cause the same problem.
 
Here we go again- 23 hours on the BMW socket and RY771 relay and it melts down. Took it to the Yanmar dealer and he shook his head saying he has changed out lots of these type and doesn’t understand why they used such light stuff. He was adamant to use a heavier relay and socket because that is the real problem. PICO 928-91 40 amp relay and socket $16 for both in the package. Much heavier. Sounds about the same as what bluejacket used. A minor wiring change to power the coil externally but easy.
We’ll see how this works. - still drawing 6.5 amps on the pump so it all looks good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Fellow Tug Nuts - It has been a year (100 operating hours) and I have toasted another relay - I have reviewed all the above and especially note CastersCruiser information regarding restricted fuel flow. I did install new filters (both fuel & separator) 50 gallons ago. I also note that they report both under and over voltage conditions can cause the issue. I also changed the relay only and have not been able to start the engine - although I do hear the pump run when the key is turned on.

Is it know what the pump should draw under "normal" conditions?
Has anyone determined any other possible cause? I am reluctant to think that a new pump would fail in 100 hours.

As always - thank you all for your sage advice and moral support - not getting out the FOR SALE sign quite yet - but it could be soon.
Bluejacket
 
We put over 900 hours on our 2009 R-25 Classic with the 4BY2-150 with zero fuel pump issues. Changed the fuel filters as per the recommended schedule. Watched my battery banks like a hawk and never let them get below 60% SOC.
About 5th down my rationalization list of reasons to move from the R-25 to the C-28 was parts availability. I had some concern of having an orphaned engine like either the 4BY2 or VP D3. And for a dozen or more reasons I do not like outboards. I still don’t think you can go wrong with a well cared for VP D4 or D6 even though they both have some quirks.
Hope you get it all sorted out. In our R-25 the recurring gremlin turned out to be bad grounding to the oil pressure sensor!
 
Bluejacket said:
Fellow Tug Nuts - It has been a year (100 operating hours) and I have toasted another relay - I have reviewed all the above and especially note CastersCruiser information regarding restricted fuel flow. I did install new filters (both fuel & separator) 50 gallons ago. I also note that they report both under and over voltage conditions can cause the issue. I also changed the relay only and have not been able to start the engine - although I do hear the pump run when the key is turned on.

Is it know what the pump should draw under "normal" conditions?
Has anyone determined any other possible cause? I am reluctant to think that a new pump would fail in 100 hours.

As always - thank you all for your sage advice and moral support - not getting out the FOR SALE sign quite yet - but it could be soon.
Bluejacket
Click to expand...
Please clarify for me. Have you recently replaced the fuel pump as well as the relay? Or just the relay?
 
99 operating hours ago - replaced both the pump and the relay/socket. Currently replaced the relay and still cannot start. Maybe the pump? Really? After 99 hours? I wouldn't think so . . .
 
Why did you replace the pump 99 hours ago? Was it inop? Are you sure fuel is getting to the pump? Is the fuel valve at the tank open? (not that I’ve ever tried to start the engine with that in the closed position) Is the strainer in the fuel tank pickup unobstructed? A friend with our exact model and year of boat found his almost completely blocked with a tar-like substance.

I am familiar with your boat. The previous owner replaced the electric pump during his ownership. In a forum post, he described applying 12V to the pump he replaced and was surprised that it ejected diesel fuel. Did that pump get transferred to you with the boat? You might consider reinstalling that pump to see if it supplies pressure sufficient to start the engine.
 
Well - couldn't start and my mechanic said the pump was bad - after he replaced it, I found that the relay was also toast, so replaced that. Not entirely sure that the pump was bad at the time. This time went to the relay first and replaced it - still cannot start - already checked all of the easy stuff, filters, hoses &c. When it was last running, the vacuum gauge on the fuel feed registered pretty much Zero. Awaiting the mechanic - more knowledgeable than last time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

  • Tugnuts.com is the community hub for Ranger Tug, Cutwater, and Solara owners. Since its inception in 2008, the Tugnuts forum has grown into an active and thriving community of more than 9,000 members. It serves as both a meeting place for the best boating community online, and an invaluable archive of information.

  • User menu
Back
Top