No Kicker?

[bmcminn]

I'm seeing new boats being sold without a kicker/secondary outboard. A dealer told me that kickers weren't necessary anymore because the large motors all have great trolling settings. In addition to trolling, I had always heard this was an important safety feature on a powerboat, in case the primary motor had an issue and it was bad weather.

Just read an article about the boating accident on Lake Tahoe where 5 people died. These tragedies are always an accumulation of factors, but motor failure was part of the scenario in this one. They were close to being safe when the outboard failed, they got beam to the waves, and a large amount of water got into the boat.

I'm certainly not saying that a kicker would have made a difference in this case. And maybe a 9.9 HP kicker on a 6000+ lb. boat isn't going to help if it's bad enough weather to matter.

I'm new to the area and powerboating, so I'm curious, what do you think?

 

[scross]

A kicker is not going to help when you are dealing with 30-40+ knot winds and 8 ft waves.
Life jackets helping? Yes! None of the eight passengers who perished had life jackets on.
Staying put in a protected Emerald Bay to avoid a violent thunderstorm? Yes! Any pilot will tell you that “get-home-itis” is frequently a tragic affliction.
Intentional grounding? Yes, by all means! The shoreline they passed before overturning was rocky but they passed several coves that might have lead to a different outcome. People are more important than your new toy!
Easy to see all this in hindsight. The trick is seeing it before you are in real, real trouble

 

[Pandion]

I'm seeing new boats being sold without a kicker/secondary outboard. A dealer told me that kickers weren't necessary anymore because the large motors all have great trolling settings.

We have a kicker on our R27OB, and for two reasons, we would not be without one; #1 is that we troll a lot and #2 is that the cost of a kicker is cheap insurance to have another means of propulsion.

As far as trolling goes, our '21 F300's trolling mode will idle the engine down to 650 rpm and increases from there are in 50 rpm steps. With our Puget Sound currents and wind patterns, that may or may not be slow enough and enough resolution to maintain desired fishing speeds. But many people troll with their main engine and still catch plenty of fish. The newer Yamaha outboards engage and disengage the forward gear, so speed control should be better.

A bigger issue for us is engine hours - we can easily put 6-10 hours a day on our kicker. At that rate, I could be hauling and changing the fluids on our F300 every six weeks if the fishing is slow. We have about 30 hours on our most recent oil change on the F300 and the oil is turning dark. I haven't checked the F9.9's hours lately but I'm guessing it's north of 60 hours in the same time period and the oil looks like it just came out of the bottle. I service our F300 at 100 hours religiously but I would not have any issue going twice that on the F9.9 It's just more efficient to putt around at 2 mph with a kicker.

Regarding redundancy, modern outboards are very reliable. I'd guess that fuel contamination would be the most likely cause of a failure of your main engine. Fluid Motion uses the same fuel tank for both outboards, so your kicker would be effected as well, unless you carry another source of gas. But other issues can happen that aren't related to fuel. We had an incident in which our F300 shut down and would not restart. That's a helpless feeling, to have no means of control while drifting into a ferry lane. Having a kicker allowed us to regain propulsion and move the boat where we wanted, not where the wind and tide wanted.

I'll agree with scross that there will be some point in a storm where the kicker would not help, but I don't know where that point will be. We've been on the kicker in 15-20 knot wind and still had control. A big issue with short, steep "square" waves is that the kicker prop comes out of the water briefly when the boat crests the wave. That said, if you told me I was headed out into a gale and that my primary engine would randomly quit at some point, then gave me the option to have a kicker or not, the answer would be easy...I'll take the kicker every time. Anything is better than nothing.

 

[gregc]

But other issues can happen that aren't related to fuel. We had an incident in which our F300 shut down and would not restart. That's a helpless feeling, to have no means of control while drifting into a ferry lane. Having a kicker allowed us to regain propulsion and move the boat where we wanted, not where the wind and tide wanted.

I would love to know more about what happened. My F300 and my father's F150 (17 years old!) have both been rock solid. Yamaha maintenance is as close to a regular religion we have, though.

I always carry spare water filter, oil, etc... but the idea of losing propulsion in a ferry lane makes my toes curl

 

[Pandion]

I would love to know more about what happened. My F300 and my father's F150 (17 years old!) have both been rock solid. Yamaha maintenance is as close to a regular religion we have, though.

I always carry spare water filter, oil, etc... but the idea of losing propulsion in a ferry lane makes my toes curl

Entirely self-inflicted.

Short version: I inadvertently engaged reverse while coming off-plane, probably somewhere around 20 mph. Engine spun backwards, ingested water, and wouldn't immediately restart. Once we got the kicker going and had some propulsion, the F300 finally started back up. That was about 200 hours ago and she's still running strong.

I can tell the whole gory tale in another post if you're interested.

 

[bmcminn]

Thanks all for the thoughtful replies. Pretty much in line with my thinking. I'm not new to Washington, but this isn't an area that anyone in my family or friend circle has experience in. So that wisdom that takes experience and years, it's not something I can tap into.

If I get one of these I'll make sure having a kicker is a priority. And Pandion, it's good to know that you're happy with the performance of a 9.9, that's what I'll look for.

 

[NorthernFocus]

Thanks all for the thoughtful replies. Pretty much in line with my thinking. I'm not new to Washington, but this isn't an area that anyone in my family or friend circle has experience in. So that wisdom that takes experience and years, it's not something I can tap into.

If I get one of these I'll make sure having a kicker is a priority. And Pandion, it's good to know that you're happy with the performance of a 9.9, that's what I'll look for.

A 9.9 high thrust/sail drive/etc will push your boat at/near hull speed in calm water with no head wind. Speed will drop off dramatically with headwind/sea. If you lose primary power you may not be able to go where you want but you'll be able to go somewhere other than where wind/tide take you. It's not likely to do you much good in a gale. But nowadays with the state of weather forecasting/reporting there's little reason/excuse for finding yourself caught in a gale.

 

[Headlee]

We just added a 15 hp high thrust Merc Pro Kicker to swim step of our C28 inboard. It works really well and we can get up 4.8 to 5.0 kts with it. Probably should have gone with the 25 hp Merc high thrust, but the 15hp has the same power head as the 20 hp. I was balancing hp vs. additional weight on the stern.

 

[CaptT]

Headlee,
I've been thinking about adding a 9.9 hp kicker to my C28 inboard but have not been able to come up with a way to do this. I don't want to steal this thread but would mind me asking how you mounted yours?
Thanks in advance for any direction you can provide me.
Terry

 

[bmcminn]

Have at it CaptT.

I just posted another question and would really appreciate any input from you all. Thanks!!!

Thread 'Two questions pre-purchase'

Thursday at 2:35 PM

Hello. There's a decent chance I'm about to put money down on a Cutwater C-248. It's a 2022 with really low hours on the outboard. I have a few general questions about the C-248 and etiquette when buying. I currently have a nice 19' fishing boat with a small v-berth and hard top, an older C-Dory. It's great but I want the next level. My kids are still young and I want to give them memories of going from marina to marina and exploring the sound.

1) I've been looking at the C-248 and similar size boats for a few years. Easy enough to trailer and skipper single-handed, big enough to feel...

• bmcminn
• Replies: 5
• Forum: Chat

 

[Headlee]

Headlee,
I've been thinking about adding a 9.9 hp kicker to my C28 inboard but have not been able to come up with a way to do this. I don't want to steal this thread but would mind me asking how you mounted yours?
Thanks in advance for any direction you can provide me.
Terry

We used the Panther 55-0030 swim step bracket. Mounted it dead center on the swim step and only had to remove the small fender. Fits perfectly between the rails. Placed a 3-gallon fuel tank in the propane locker. Using a Panther T4 steering unit with Pro Angler remote control. So far, it is working well. 20-inch shaft on the Merc. 15 hp pro kicker. Shoot me a personal message for more details and costs.