Autopilot Jamming Hard Over

Dear Cutwater, I am a the proud new (second) owner of a 2023 Cutwater 30 CB. I have gone through most of the technicalities of the boat and have come across a couple issues. The most concerning being the Tiller arm jamming through use of the Autopilot, it has occurred on two occasions now when activating the autopilot to follow a route or go to a waypoint where large alterations are required. On both occasions the tiller arm at the rudder is fully retracted into the hydraulic ram - picture attached) it jams hard over to port so that the vessel does tight circles hard over and does not return and once out of autopilot it has not eased up for quite some time forcing the vessel to be immobilized with no steering for ten to fifteen minutes. Eventually after considerable time on both occasions I have been able to release the pressure with the steering wheel and bring it back to midship but it seems this should not happen in the first place, is there supposed to be a hard physical barrier preventing the Tiller arm from going so far over that it jams? Or what can be done so this does not happen? I have adjusted the autopilot settings to see if the next time it is a much gentler turn to prevent this but again it seems this should not be possible in the first place. I look forward to your response. Thank you! Chris.

Hi there Chris,

That definitely should warrant a call to the folks at Garmin, as we haven't had this specific issue happen that I am aware. There was a previous issue with the autopilot pumps that would cause random errors with the heading when the pump failed, but not one that would cause a hard lock. Can you upload a pic of your pump so I can see which one you have? (in the starboard lazarette) I'll see if I can find a little more information.

Thanks!

Ralf

Hello Ralf,

Thank you very much for the reply I greatly appreciate it, I was finally able to get down and take a picture as per the attached photo. Does the entire system including the steering motor, rudder, hydraulics etc. all fall under the Garmin umbrella? If so that would be great to discuss only with one manufacturer. I cannot say for sure what the issue is, I only guess that there should be some type of physical barrier in place to prevent the hydraulic ram on the rudder from going so far over that the arm gets jammed inside the hydraulic ram, but as you say perhaps there is something more contributing to this occurring. But reading your response I can't say I have had problems with the pump failing or with random heading errors.

I can say though I am having a hard time displaying the heading on my Garmin 8612 unit, only the COG seems to appear, I have been through all the settings on the Garmin and can't seem to find how to change it to show only Heading and not Only COG as you can see in the other photo, not sure if this is somehow related to the steering issue, but this will be surely Garmin so I can address this with them if I do speak with them.

I look forward to your advice and on how to proceed, thank you for the help!
Chris

Hi Chris,

Yes, the COG/heading issue is a display issue only and has nothing to do with what you're experiencing. I do think it's time for a call to Garmin, as this seems to be a different issue than what we've had in years past with failing pumps. Please don't hesitate to keep me in the loop and ask Garmin to reach out to me if they need any additional information from us. They do know our boats pretty well, as they have worked with us for many years. Hope this helps get you started.

Cheers,

Ralf

Hello Ralf,

Thank you again for the reply and information, I'll be in touch with Garmin and let you know how it unfolds.

Best,

Chris Ross

Hello Ralf,

I have a very interesting response from Garmin and they point to what is needed to fix the issue, please see their response which also points to a big issue I never mentioned in that my steering lacks response in a big way, sometimes I need to turn the wheel as much as five full turns before there is any response in the boat turning, this is in particular when turning to port, but if the solution is as simple as remounting the point in a different orientation then this is really good news to have this guidance.

I am curious what your thoughts are and how you think I should proceed further?

Thank you very much! Chris Ross


Garmin response below:

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Hello Chris,

Based on photos provided the Smartpump has multiple installation faults. First is that pump should be mounted horizontally, if it can not be then the manifold has to higher then the connectors facing downward. Second issue is regard the T fitting being directly install into the manifold, this causing air pockets to form, which will lead to locking of the steering. Until the smartpump is install correctly, you will continue to have system and operation failures.
https://static.garmin.com/pumac/SmartPump_Installation_Instructions_v2_EN-US.pdf


Thank you for choosing Garmin,

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Hi Chris,

That's an interesting response from Garmin. Keep in mind that they work directly with us on our installations, in regard to making sure they meet their operational standards. So anything we do would have been "signed off" by them to one extent or another. The other issue is that, once a system is installed, it is installed that way for dozens of boats, so that would mean that other boats should have the exact same problem. Also, the pump is mounted horizontally, so not sure what the CS rep meant by that. Also, these T fittings have been used for years in exactly the same manner with no issues that would point to that being a problem. I'll ask our engineers to see if they can corroborate any of this. We haven't installed the hydraulic systems in a couple of years, so a little refresher will be required.

Thanks!

Ralf

By the way, that brings up one very important thing that I forgot to mention earlier. Make sure that you know that your system is properly bled. It won't do much good trying to trouble shoot your system if there are large pockets of air. Just throwing that in to make sure.

Cheers,

Ralf

Hi Ralf,

Thank you for your responses and advice I sincerely appreciate it, my only goal is to try and fix whatever is going on so that I can use the boat safely during the summer and to be clear I am ready to pay for whatever the repair may be I am not trying to create any warranty claims.

I will try to email with Garmin once again and see if they have any additional thoughts on the above responses.

I believe you are in contact with Tim who I just now responded to, I appreciate you working together on this, here is one of my comments in that email:

I had the boat out of the water for several weeks after purchasing to correct a variety of issues and the steering was supposed to be one of them, the mechanics added as much fluid as possible and worked it through the system to bleed off any air bubbles but to no avail, they were not able to get much fluid in as it was already full, there has not been any leaks, the previous owner also tried topping off the system as much as possible to fix the problem but was never able to make it any better, and I am continuing to check on this but everything is topped off.

Thank you once again and I appreciate you working with me to get this resolved.

Very best,
Chris

Hi Chris,

Looks like one of the biggest issues that you have is too much fluid in the system. The fluid should be up just over the gears inside the pump, and not higher. In other words, remove the cap from the pump and look straight down into the pump. You should have the fluid barely covering the top of the gears in the pump. If they are covered to where you cannot see them, it's way too much fluid. This can contribute to the lock that you're getting. Also, make sure that only the CB helm has a vented cap (but also that it definitely is a vented cap). You can check for that by looking at the bottom of the cap. It should have a pinhole in it. That cap needs to be on the CB to bleed excess pressure. Please check those items and let me know.

Now, a word about proper bleeding: the system needs to be bled with a proper bleeder and not simply have the fluid turned through to try and eliminate bubbles. So if that has not been done, it needs to be to make sure that the fluid level is correct and that there are no bubbles in the system. This is the system that is used by us for this process. It is the system that Uflex (the maker of the steering pumps and other hardware) requires. https://anchorexpress.com/products/uflex-portable-hydraulic-purging-system-bubblebuster

Let me know how things progress.

Cheers,

Ralf

Hi Ralf,

Thank you very much for the reply and for your concern, I am going to move forward with your recommendations and will be passing on your specific instructions on to my local diesel boat mechanic.

I do have a short video of the helm locking up with me trying to pull it to port but it being locked, where the wheel will keep going to starboard, but again when I pull on it to port it is locked. I don’t seem to be able to attach the video in here, I will try and send it to Tim to forward on to you.

I have also ordered a rudder indicator which I understand plugs directly into the steering motor/ pump, a Garmin GRF10 which I hear may help prevent the locking issue so that system knows where the rudder is and won’t try and force it past it’s hard over position if it already knows where it is.

I will let you know how things progress, I have some good advice so am working on getting this all looked into ASAP through my marine diesel mechanic.

This will take a few weeks to get through with my mechanic but I will follow up once complete or if there are any snags along the way.

I do sincerely appreciate the responses though and am glad to have access to good advice which makes owning the Cutwater very appealing.

Thank you,
Chris Ross

Hi Chris,

Thank you for the update and kind words. We always try to do what we can to help. Just let me know how things proceed and I'll stand by to provide any additional help as needed. I sent you a PM for the video. Hope things start to resolve from here on out but let me know how things progress.

Cheers!

Ralf