1000 service

[DFRIEDLEY]

Hello,
This is a service question for an R31 - 1000 Hr service what is required for that?

Thank you

david

 

[Gin]

On the service protocol sheet for my engine (D4-300I-F), all protocols are for 12 months/200 hrs, 24 months/200 hrs, 48 months/800 hrs, or 48 months/2000 hrs. Assuming you did everything that was due for service at 800 hrs, I think you would be due for just a regular 12 month/200 hour service in terms of regular engine service.

But I know that factory “maintenance” protocols aren’t the full story. Things like pulling and inspecting the exhaust elbow (which I’ve seen recommended as early as 500 hrs), replacing hoses once they get to a certain age, testing alternator output, checking engine alignment, and so on. The seasoned boat mechanics on the forum should be able to weigh in with suggestions of that sort.

Congrats on reaching the 1000 hr service mark!

Gini

 

[fishheadbarandgrill]

Will be researching the same for my Yanmar 6BY-260. Just passed 1040 hours

 

[BB marine]

This is an open ended question. It depends on what the service records are from the past and how many years has the engine been in service. 1000 hours is a service recommendation but it comes with a more important number that should be used by most pleasure boaters (Seasons or years in service). Many boat owners rarely see 1000 hours in the first 5 or 6 years of owning the boat. Most look at the hour meter as the gage as to what needs to be done. A boat that has been in service for 10 years with 600 hours should have had the 1000 hour service done twice if the recommendation is 1000 hours or 5 years.

The D4 service recommendations change from model year to model year. The engine manufactures always try to stretch the service intervals out to make it seem like a more dependable less expensive engine to own and operate.

A rule of thumb for basic common rail Diesel engine maintenance is as follows,

Engine and oil and filter change 50 hours to 200 hours OR ONCE A YEAR
Reverse gear oil and filter change 200 hours OR ONCE A YEAR
Air filter change 200 hours OR ONCE A YEAR
Crankcase ventilation filter Change 200 hours OR ONCE A YEAR
Drive belts. Check belt tension 200 hours OR ONCE A YEAR
Fuel filter/ fuel pre-filter. Change 200 hours OR ONCE A YEAR
Coolant flush and change 400 hours OR EVERY 2 YEARS ( replace thermostat 800 hours OR EVERY 4 YEARS)
Impeller change 400 hours OR EVERY 2 YEARS
Drive Belt replacement 1000 hours OR EVERY 5 YEARS
Heat exchanger inspect and clean 1000 hours OR EVERY 5 YEARS
Intercooler. Inspect/Clean 1000 hours OR EVERY 5 YEARS
Turbo. Inspect/clean as required 1000 hours OR EVERY 5 YEARS.

Along with these recommendations a yearly inspection of hoses, hose clamps, battery connections, pulley's, motor mounts, inspect for corrosion, water and oil leaks, inspect packing and running gear, engine alignment, engine anodes if applicable(engine anodes should be inspected based on the area you boat in. Some areas the anodes will last longer than other areas) Learn the best timing for this. If you engine flush regularly the engine anodes will last longer and the exchangers will too.

If there are a 1000 hours on the R31 ranger you are buying or purchased and you have service records showing work that has been completed maintaining this boat and engine. You should base your decision on what is not been completed. If the service records are not that good or there is up coming service needed you may want to do the full list to insure all is done and start fresh with a full inspection and service. Your member description states Looking for a R31 to do the Loop. Me personally would want a complete service done before throwing the lines of the dock and starting the Loop with a full. Just my opinion!

I purchased a MAINSHIP 34 PILOT with twin Yanmar diesels 4LHA STP with 850 hours. we purchased from the second owner. He gave me all the service records from the first owner and his. The boat and engine was well maintained but some of the 1000 hour / 5 year items had never been done. The owner stated the service center told me some of those items don't need to be done until it has 1000 hours. This was not correct! When I purchased the boat I did a complete 1000 hour service which included removing all exchangers cleaning resealing and pressure checking, turbo's removed cleaned and inspected, coolant drained, flushed, new thermostats and new coolant, fuel system cleaned, drained, filters replaced, replaced motor mounts, props removed and sent out for scanning, prop shafts removed, new cutlass bearings installed, new shaft seals installed, engine flush devises installed, engine oil and filters replaced and oil samples sent out for a baseline, reverse gear oil and filters changed and oil samples sent out for a base line, belts replaced, all engine anodes, shaft and hull anodes replaced, all batteries replaced and terminals cleaned and inspected, all 12Volt systems visually inspected and checked for good working order, head seals and joker replaced. This was my 1000 hour service to get ready for the loop.

My point "1000 hour service" is open ended based on what you are trying to accomplish. The minimum requirements or getting the boat ready for a journey! Good Luck with you R31.

 

[Gin]

Ah Brian! I was waiting (hoping) for you to join in, knowing you would have a comprehensive answer on this. I’ll be keeping a copy of the list you posted. Thanks.

Two questions:

(1) I don’t see the exhaust elbow on your list anywhere. I’ve heard a bit just recently about problems with exhaust elbows on marine diesels generally, which I confess I never gave much thought to before. Evidently they can look fine on the outside and be all but blocked on the inside (at least, given enough time and saltwater). Any advice on when to pull and inspect them?

(2) Fresh water vs salt: I’ve assumed that things like heat exchangers, intercoolers, and exhaust elbows are far more prone to corrosion in salt water environments than in fresh. Am I correct? So that service and inspection intervals for an engine that is only in fresh water might be stretched out for at least those kinds of components?

Thanks, as always, for your sharing your expertise and experience with us all.

Gini

 

[BB marine]

Gini, You are correct about exhaust elbow it should be inspected. I should have specified the inspection of the exhaust elbow. When servicing the Turbo I role the elbow inspection into one step. The elbow is removed to inspect the turbine vanes in the turbo. The elbow can be inspected for corrosion and erosion at this time. In my case the Yanmar's in my boat the previous owner replaced both exhaust risers (elbows) in 2018 with stainless steel elbows. An upgrade to original cast iron. Both the port and starboard had blown threw after 15 years of service in fresh water.

You are correct the exchanger life is much longer in fresh water. This is why I highly recommend fresh water flushing when operating a boat in salt water. The saltwater doesn't do damage as it is running through the exchangers and cooling the engine. It does the damage when it is sitting stagnate in the engines raw cooling components. When I took the three exchangers apart, heat exchanger, after cooler and oil cooler they all looked like new with the exception of some evidence of zebra muscles and some sand that found its way into the raw water system over the years. The o-ring seals were cracked and in need of replacement along with the end cap covers. I felt it was a box with checking off. The anodes were completely gone too. Midwest marine technicians don't really service them much. They should though!

 

[DFRIEDLEY]

thank you everyone for your input this gives me a great direction. I follow boats on the loop and I see that some are set to do the 1000hr service, I'm interested in what that meant as we are doing the loop in 2024. I do understand that service is everything to keep a boat running and dependible.

thank you, David

 

[Firepara36]

Thank You for the question David, and what a thorough answer Brain!
I had a 2016 29s with just over 1000 hours and had a bearing go out on my alternator. I replaced the alternator (BTW
Whatcom Electric in Bellingham, does a great job of rebuilding the alternator better then new at a very reasonable price)
I also chose to replace preventatively all the the parts that touched the drive belt which included the raw water pump, idler pulley and tensioner. This may have been over kill but gave me great peace of mind.

The intercooler like Brian mentioned can be a weak point also, mine was rebuilt after internal inspection and externally showed little to no issue. There are a lot of small passages that get clogged with salty build up.

Kevin

 

[Gin]

Brian, I’ve been off line for a couple of days. But thanks for the added advice, including on the exhaust elbow. Much obliged.

Gini

 

[FlyMeAway]

Freshwater flushing a heat exchanger with a sacrificial zinc anode is an "old fishwives" tale that will actually harm the heat exchanger. I'm amazed how many boating forums (and even marine mechanics!) suggest this highly counterproductive "fix" that defies chemistry and interferes with the way the heat exchanger and corrosion protection system is designed.

If you expose a zinc anode to freshwater, it forms a corrosion-resistant zinc hydroxide coating that stops the sacrificial action of the anode and will not dissolve in water (saltwater or otherwise). This is why freshwater or brackish water boaters use magnesium, aluminum, or (controversially) mixed-metal anodes. I suppose you could use an aluminum anode, which is safe for freshwater as well, but that seems like overkill for our engines as designed (the anode adequately protects the heat exchanger from corrosion).

What is absolutely critical though is that you check and replace your zincs regularly, and before they get too worn down to release big flakes of zinc/crud to clog your heat exchanger. I've been a bit remiss on my Tug (as I've had a mechanic do most of the work instead of doing the engine work myself), but on prior boats that meant checking, cleaning, and/or replacing the zincs 3-6 times a year depending on use. And then every maybe ~5 years or so, depending on crud buildup, you take the heat exchanger off the boat and to a radiator shop where they power wash and pressure test the thing for maybe $100. I'm surprised this isn't in the service interval for our boats, as IIRC it was in the service interval for the past marine diesels I've owned.

I suppose if you scrubbed your zincs clean of the zinc hydroxide coating every time you used the boat, you might get around this issue. But who does that? And moreover, with the sacrificial anode in place, you don't have to worry about corrosion anyway. A properly maintained heat exchanger with regularly exchanged anodes will last just as long in saltwater as in freshwater -- or at least longer than the life of your engine.

I've also heard that some of our engines no longer have sacrificial anodes on their heat exchangers. I don't totally understand how this works from a corrosion protection perspective (would love to learn, though!), and I would guess the chemistry of freshwater flush would be different but I'm not sure how without understanding how it works.

 

[BB marine]

Freshwater flushing a heat exchanger with a sacrificial zinc anode is an "old fishwives" tale that will actually harm the heat exchanger. I'm amazed how many boating forums (and even marine mechanics!) suggest this highly counterproductive "fix" that defies chemistry and interferes with the way the heat exchanger and corrosion protection system is designed.

The reason why it is a good maintenance item to do. Not only do Forums, Marine technicians recommend it. The manufactures that build the engines and the seawater components recommend that you do periodic flushing of the engine to maintain proper cooling.

f you expose a zinc anode to freshwater, it forms a corrosion-resistant zinc hydroxide coating that stops the sacrificial action of the anode and will not dissolve in water (saltwater or otherwise). This is why freshwater or brackish water boaters use magnesium, aluminum, or (controversially) mixed-metal anodes. I suppose you could use an aluminum anode, which is safe for freshwater as well, but that seems like overkill for our engines as designed (the anode adequately protects the heat exchanger from corrosion).

You need to read up on Marine zinc anodes a little more. The main reason that Magnesium is used in fresh water is because of the water conductivity. The higher driving voltage available when using Mg anodes. Fresh water is much less conductive it has higher resistivity than salt water. Aluminium can be used in all types of water chemistry but not recommended in non polluted fresh water. I actually think Aluminum gives better protection in salt water applications but that is just my opinion. Most engine manufactures use a zinc alloy as a sacrificial anode in the raw water cooling system. This is installed to sacrifice the anode material, instead of sacrificing other dissimilar metals present in the cooling system components. That is all it does!! It doesn't flush, clean, remove destructive sediments, salt deposits..... Flushing the cooling system is not to protect an anode it is to clean and remove destructive salt deposits, sediments and sea water "critters" that foul the cooling system. The Zinc alloy used by engine manufactures is recommended for all waters. I just purchased a boat that spent 20 years in the Great Lakes. I removed all end caps and pushed all tube bundles out of the exchanger housings. I saw no evidence of corrosion, or damage to the metals. It has 6 Zinc alloy anodes per engine. Of the 12 anodes 4 were 70% erodes 8 were 50% eroded. The anodes were changed in May of 2019, the boat was put on the hard in October of 2019 and stored on the hard until June of 21 ( because of the Covid 19 issues the owner had) I did the full service in August of 2021. The recommendation for engine anode inspection is every 3 to 6 months. A zinc alloy anode placed in fresh water can eventually get an oxide coating that seals the material and eventually deem s it inactive. This normally forms over a period of time 3 to 4 months if sitting in fresh water and is inactive. If there is activity the zinc anode continues to work and the zinc alloy material erodes reducing the ability of the coating to form. At the 3 to 6 month interval if I notice a white coating I suppose I could brush it off (using a particle mask you do not want to breath that dust ). In my experience I never have seen this issue with engine anodes.The anodes show signs of erosion. ( I have seen the coating on zinc anodes used in fresh water after exposed to air ) Actually a zinc anode used in salt water or fresh water when exposed to air does become useless because of the white oxidized coating.

If you are boating in salt water you are continually introducing salt water to the cooling system. Flushing the fresh water out and salt water in. The chances of the zinc alloy forming an oxide coating are slim to none when used during a boating season. The chances of maintaining a clean unobstructed cooling system for years by only replacing anodes is slim to none.

The reason the "OLD FISHWIVES TALE" is told by forums, marine technicians, engine manufactures, and a lot of DIY boat owners is because they have seen the results. Salt water is destructive to metal. I suppose some think that washing the salt off a boat, rinsing fresh water to remove the salt deposits on stainless steel, aluminum, other metals and composite materials is a waste of time! Or cleaning and flushing the salt water out of the bilge is counter productive. Not me! Why? Because I have worked on boats for years and seen the effects of how much the "OLD FISHWIFES TALE" does to help maintain the integrity of boat and its equipment.

I've also heard that some of our engines no longer have sacrificial anodes on their heat exchangers. I don't totally understand how this works from a corrosion protection perspective (would love to learn, though!), and I would guess the chemistry of freshwater flush would be different but I'm not sure how without understanding how it works.

The chemistry is the same fresh water flushing works the same way whether you have anodes or not. The reason that anodes are no longer used in some engine manufactures cooling system is called Metallurgy. To put simple terminology ( I'm not a engineer specializing in Metallurgy. The metals are closely matched to the same electrode potential in a electrolyte ( water) an anode is not needed. This is my back yard understanding! And my opinion. If you feel that flushing your engine is bad for it then don't flush it maybe your right but I'm not changing my thoughts on the matter. We all have opinions based on our experiences.