2008 R25 - Repower options

[Seakr25]

I have a 2008 ranger tugs 25 classic that was originally sold with a QSD 2.0 Cummins 150hp engine. It was a repowered in 2017 before I purchased it, with a QSD 2.0 Cummins 130 hp. I’ve put almost no time on it and due to ongoing issues even with only 160 hours on the clock, I consider it a lemon of an engine. I’ve run into some serious issues with a rear main seal twice now and at this point I’m looking at repower the boat. I’m looking at the yanmar engines 4jh4-HTE , 110 hp series specifically. I am curious if there are any mold changes or clearance issues I should be aware of. I believe the Ranger 25 was offered with this engine , but I’m not sure if boats equipped with a Cummins engine, have a different layout in the engine room. Any advice or information would be extremely helpful. I love everything about my R25C except Cummins, I’ve not been able to enjoy it in operation much over the past several years.

 

[scross]

Have you spoken to RT Engineering? They may be able to give you some parameters about sizes, weights, angles, etc.
The obvious answer is a Yanmar 4BY2-150/180 (discontinued) if you can find a used or rebuilt one. Finding a good used one may be a challenge. The other engine used in the R-25 SC was the VolvoPenta D3-150 (also discontinued) but I have no idea if one of those would fit.
Perhaps newer Yanmars (e.g. 4LV150 (Z)) might work. A call to a Yanmar dealer after you speak with RT?
It’s my understanding that trying to convert your R-25 Classic to a gas outboard would be unrealistic from a $$ standpoint.
Good luck!

 

[Seakr25]

Gas outboard conversion is not in the cards and I agree it’s not realistic. The use for the boat really lends itself to hull speeds and we live in SE Alaska so no need to seed anyplace. The 130 is never run near full power. I rarely run above 50% throttle due to fuel consumption vs miles traveled. I really think a 110hp engine is the better fit … heck maybe even smaller … I just need hull speed and a few more kts occasionally… was hoping the factory ranger tugs folks would chime in here but I’ll also try and reach out other ways.

 

[stevevoyce@yahoo.com]

My 2008 R25 has a 110 Yanmar with over a Thousand hours. Still running strong.

 

[Seakr25]

My 2008 R25 has a 110 Yanmar with over a Thousand hours. Still running strong.

What’s the model of engine and gearbox you have? Are you running the 4jh4-HTE? What are your prop specs also if you have em. Much appreciated!

 

[stevevoyce@yahoo.com]

Running a 4JH4-HTE with KMH4A marine gear. Not sure about the propeller.

 

[dclagett]

I re-powered last year my RT25SC from a Volvo Penta D3-150 to a Yanmar 4JH110. Long story why, see my posts on this site. I am very happy with the conversion to a Yanmar; much smoother, quite operation and easier maintenance. However I gave up some speed. I used the same model gear as on the VP, a ZF45A with a 1.5 to 1 ratio swinging a 17"X10" 3 blade no cup propeller. At the end of this year I will be increasing the propeller pitch from 10" to 11" to bring the WOT RPM in line with Yanmar specification for that engine of 3200 rpm. I currently cruise 8 knotts at 2800 rpm burning about 3 gph. With the increas in prop pitch I should better thoes numbers somewhat.

Let me know if you have additional questions and good luck with your decision.

 

[NorthernFocus]

I have a 2008 ranger tugs 25 classic that was originally sold with a QSD 2.0 Cummins 150hp engine. It was a repowered in 2017 before I purchased it, with a QSD 2.0 Cummins 130 hp. I’ve put almost no time on it and due to ongoing issues even with only 160 hours on the clock, I consider it a lemon of an engine. I’ve run into some serious issues with a rear main seal twice now and at this point I’m looking at repower the boat. I’m looking at the yanmar engines 4jh4-HTE , 110 hp series specifically. I am curious if there are any mold changes or clearance issues I should be aware of. I believe the Ranger 25 was offered with this engine , but I’m not sure if boats equipped with a Cummins engine, have a different layout in the engine room. Any advice or information would be extremely helpful. I love everything about my R25C except Cummins, I’ve not been able to enjoy it in operation much over the past several years.

Sorry to hear about your problems with the QSD 2.0. If it was installed in 2017 and is in fact identified as a CMD(Cummins Mercruiser Diesel) then it was not a new engine when it was installed. CMD ceased to exist in 2012. Mercruiser still produces/sells the same engine under the label of Mercury Diesel. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with these engines if they are operated in their design window. Yours may have been abused by a prior owner and/or was poorly overhauled. We just rolled over 2200hrs on the original 150hp CMD. The prior owner had replaced the turbo just before we bought the boat(indicative or running above recommended cruise power). Since then the only issue we've had is one failed sensor and the exhaust mixing elbow cracked due to incorrectly installed exhaust hose.

You can download the dimensional drawings for the two engines to see if the Yanmar will fit. 99 percent sure there's no issue as that was the original engine supplied in the R25. But it's easy enough to check. If you're not mechanically inclined any competent boat mechanic/yard should be able to do so.

Below are links to the Mercury Diesel and Yanmar sites where you can find the relevant drawings. It's interesting to note that the drawings on the Mercury site are still the original CMD drawings from 2003.

https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/engines/diesel/mercury-diesel/20l-tier-3/#specifications

https://www.yanmar.com/marine/product/engines/4jh110/

 

[Seakr25]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I’ll update once I’ve made some progress.

 

[Seakr25]

Well after a lot of searching and back and forth with options I settled on a MUCH smaller engine but with the ability to reach hull speed. Also took out any and all computer control for engine operation. Order was placed for a Betamarine 62T along with new matching gearbox and prop. Calculations show it should reach 9-10kts but cruise nicely between 6.5-7.5 ... which is about 90% of our cruising here in SE Alaska. Ill post more once its installed but it will be a rare ranger I think with a beta in it ...

 

[NorthernFocus]

Well after a lot of searching and back and forth with options I settled on a MUCH smaller engine but with the ability to reach hull speed. Also took out any and all computer control for engine operation. Order was placed for a Betamarine 62T along with new matching gearbox and prop. Calculations show it should reach 9-10kts but cruise nicely between 6.5-7.5 ... which is about 90% of our cruising here in SE Alaska. Ill post more once its installed but it will be a rare ranger I think with a beta in it ...

Glad to hear you have a path forward. Will the install be DIY or are you working with a local yard? Looks like a simple little engine which is a good thing. Simplicity lends itself to reliability.

No doubt you'll cruise nicely at 6.5-7.5 kts. But I'll be really surprised if you can hit 9-10. Unless your cruising weight is WAY less than ours. At any rate will be interested to hear how it works out for you. There's little doubt we'll be facing a repower at some point. I go back and forth whether to eek out all we can from the existing engine or just go ahead and replace it and enjoy the benefits of a new engine. Of course that assumes that a new one would be trouble free.

 

[Maggie Anne]

Although you've already decided on your repower engine, you'll probably be interested in watching the video posts by the Skagit Valley College's Marine Technology group (The SVC Skallywags). They have a series of videos on repowering a 25 Ranger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWqgbGPwlmo

 

[Seakr25]

I have seen the series and I’m actually I’m working with the same folks that were able to source the yanmar engine for them finally.

 

[Seakr25]

Well after a lot of searching and back and forth with options I settled on a MUCH smaller engine but with the ability to reach hull speed. Also took out any and all computer control for engine operation. Order was placed for a Betamarine 62T along with new matching gearbox and prop. Calculations show it should reach 9-10kts but cruise nicely between 6.5-7.5 ... which is about 90% of our cruising here in SE Alaska. Ill post more once its installed but it will be a rare ranger I think with a beta in it ...

Glad to hear you have a path forward. Will the install be DIY or are you working with a local yard? Looks like a simple little engine which is a good thing. Simplicity lends itself to reliability.

No doubt you'll cruise nicely at 6.5-7.5 kts. But I'll be really surprised if you can hit 9-10. Unless your cruising weight is WAY less than ours. At any rate will be interested to hear how it works out for you. There's little doubt we'll be facing a repower at some point. I go back and forth whether to eke out all we can from the existing engine or just go ahead and replace it and enjoy the benefits of a new engine. Of course that assumes that a new one would be trouble free.

I’m having a shop do the install since I don’t have as much time as I used too. It’s quite the project since I have to ship the boat out of SE Alaska to get the work done. Have not had good experiences with local shops over the years. I was forced into a repower and should have done it sooner actually. Rear main seal failed twice and I should have cut my losses the first time. That seal along with excessive crank pressure by time of the second seal failure occurred forced my hand into a repower.

 

[NorthernFocus]

I’m having a shop do the install since I don’t have as much time as I used too. It’s quite the project since I have to ship the boat out of SE Alaska to get the work done. Have not had good experiences with local shops over the years. I was forced into a repower and should have done it sooner actually. Rear main seal failed twice and I should have cut my losses the first time. That seal along with excessive crank pressure by time of the second seal failure occurred forced my hand into a repower.

Are you sending it south? Regardless that is quite a project.

Repowering these boats is a dilemma. But the more I think on it the more I like your solution. The original 150hp isn't really enough power but is a major PITA to maintain purely due to the physical dimensions. We've learned to live at hull speed and the extra hp doesn't really give enough speed to justify the fuel burn. A smaller engine at least gets rid of one headache.

 

[Seakr25]

I’m having a shop do the install since I don’t have as much time as I used too. It’s quite the project since I have to ship the boat out of SE Alaska to get the work done. Have not had good experiences with local shops over the years. I was forced into a repower and should have done it sooner actually. Rear main seal failed twice and I should have cut my losses the first time. That seal along with excessive crank pressure by time of the second seal failure occurred forced my hand into a repower.

Are you sending it south? Regardless that is quite a project.

Repowering these boats is a dilemma. But the more I think on it the more I like your solution. The original 150hp isn't really enough power but is a major PITA to maintain purely due to the physical dimensions. We've learned to live at hull speed and the extra hp doesn't really give enough speed to justify the fuel burn. A smaller engine at least gets rid of one headache.

Yes I'm barging it south on its trailer to have the engine and gearbox installed. It makes the most sense with the lack of folks here to do quality work. Once you factor in local shop costs and risk of sub par work, it makes a lot of sense .... The smaller engine will leave plenty of service space. I also look forward to having better access to service areas in general. The beta also allows for a rear facing raw water pump that is usually specified for V drive applications but I asked for it. This means access to impeller for service will take minutes without contorting myself around equipment. Remote oil filter mounted to the bulkhead along with the integrated oil change pump also sells me on the Beta engine. I come from the sailing world and simpler the better for diesels. No electronic controls means no laptops to reset sensors .. just some spare parts onbaod and your back off and running most of the time. Up here when I am 150+ miles from any sort of assistance simple really makes sense. Adding all the nifty computer stuff is still doable also with their NMEA2k tie in but Its not required for engine operation .... makes sense to me. I will have to report back once it's done and back in the water. I am banking on it being a good solution for many years. I was not looking to retain resale value by cramming in a gigantic engine like most do these days ... so I feel this was a reasonable choice. We LOVE the boat as a simple by very comfy family cruiser. Living on a remote island in SE Alaska is pretty amazing but the boat is used more like the family SUV for weekend drives ... it just needs to work every time and be simple to maintain.

 

[NorthernFocus]

...The smaller engine will leave plenty of service space. I also look forward to having better access to service areas in general. The beta also allows for a rear facing raw water pump that is usually specified for V drive applications but I asked for it. This means access to impeller for service will take minutes without contorting myself around equipment...

Wow. Imagine changing the impeller right in front of you.

I come from the sailing world and simpler the better for diesels. No electronic controls means no laptops to reset sensors .. just some spare parts onbaod and your back off and running most of the time. Up here when I am 150+ miles from any sort of assistance simple really makes sense. Adding all the nifty computer stuff is still doable also with their NMEA2k tie in but Its not required for engine operation .... makes sense to me...

I also came from sailing and offshore commercial fishing before that. One of the primary benefits of old school diesels is reliability. All of the electronics on the low emission common rail engines undo that.

... I will have to report back once it's done and back in the water. I am banking on it being a good solution for many years. I was not looking to retain resale value by cramming in a gigantic engine like most do these days ... so I feel this was a reasonable choice. We LOVE the boat as a simple by very comfy family cruiser. Living on a remote island in SE Alaska is pretty amazing but the boat is used more like the family SUV for weekend drives ... it just needs to work every time and be simple to maintain.

I'll be looking forward to hearing your experience with the engine. I also describe our boat as a floating motorhome. From late may through Labor Day we spend roughly every other week in remote areas of Prince William Sound. We go out of our way to spend time where we're least likely to see other boats. So reliability is my primary goal. I just need to be able to make at least 8-9kts to cross a couple of dicey areas that we can't avoid getting to/from home. We can wait for a weather window outbound but sooner or later we've gotta go home.

 

[Seakr25]

I will post an update when the engine is in and I have some real world numbers for performance.