2015 Cutwater 26 Luxury Edition

[Anniecandy18]

Hello Cutwater Factory,
My husband and I just recently bought a 2015 Cutwater 26 from a Broker ( dealership in Yarmouth Maine). It has the Volvo D3 220 engine with only 112hrs on it. There was an overheating issue that showed up on the sea trial that the dealer thought they had addressed before we signed the paperwork and took the boat to our slip in Amesbury, MA. Our first time putting it in the water it was clearly still having the overheating issues so the dealer sent a service tech down to replace the impeller that did, in fact need replacing. While he was still there, we took it out for another sea trial and noticed that it was still overheating at high RPMs. The temp would dip back down when we let off the throttle. He couldn't identify the issue other than it looked like there was not enough water pressure coming through the seacock into the sea strainer. He was concerned that the bottom paint was obstructing the flow. They came down with a truck and hauled the boat back to Maine to try to find the issue on Monday. Today they notified us that the issue was with the actual construction of the boat. Their exact words "Based on our Volvo manual that motor requires a 1 ¼” seacock, and it only has a 1” and there should never be a hard 90deg fitting on a motor inlet, only a swept 90. Couple that with the extra items pulling off that strainer and it’s a recipe for high temp."
This cutwater was basically brand new with no modifications and we are trying to figure out how this could be a problem for us and not other Cutwaters of same year and model. They are offering to create another seacock and add another sea strainer dedicated to just the engine but at our cost for parts. We are very hesitant to have another hole drilled in our hull and want to talk to a Cutwater technician first to see if they have any advice or have seen this before. I belive the dealer planned on trying to reach out but we wanted to be proactive. We have very short summers here in New England and this will be over a month of owning this boat without being able to really use it. Please Help!

 

[dclagett]

I had a similar problem on a D3 with my Ranger Tug. You are correct the thru hull should be 1.25”. I also found the clam shell hull strainer clogged easily where I boat and it also allowed debris into the raw water system which clogged the transmission oil cooler. If you look at my album you will see the changes I made to correct the problem. I went to an 1.25” thru hull and a wedge hull strainer with screen. This solved my problem.

I did not go with a different interior raw water strainer, however that may also help eliminate the problem with the transmission oil cooler if the strainer has a fine screen.

Assuming the clam shell hull strainer is clean, I would check the oil cooler for debris. The hoses come off easily and you can back flush with a garden hose. To get thru this season without laying the boat up to redo the raw water system I would have the hull strainer and oil cooler cleaned at regular intervals. You can tell if a blockage is building by looking at the hose that goes between the oil cooler and the raw water pump with the engine running at 1500 rpm. If the hose stays round no blockage is present, if the hose flattens out there is a blockage. If you still have an overheating problem you may need to clean the heat exchanger.

The factory configuration seems to be adequate, however it is marginal and clogs easily. In the long run for your boating area you may want to improve the raw water intake.

Good luck

 

[FWTMD]

Cutting a second hole for second seacock seems to be ONE answer.

But just to ask, why not cut the exiting hole larger, install the correct size seacock, and correct the 90 degree problem as Volvo specs it?

I suspect that is more work. Hence a shortcut solution.

You are fortunate the dealer is pitching in on this. He deserves some kudos.

Since you have a shot at using the boat at lower RPM's, why not get the dealer to agree to handle this once the season is over. Do the work over the winter. In using the boat you may find other projects you want completed too.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Anniecandy18]

We bought the boat specifically to do longer trips up to Maine, Isle of shoals, Harbor Islands, etc. We did use it to putt around in the river one afternoon but getting out the mouth of the Merrimack can be very tricky and you really want to be able to go more headway speed. Max speed with the current before overheat is only about 13 knots and 8 against current and that was in the river. It was mint condition, sold as "like new" so we wrongly assumed we would be able to not have to do any projects right away to have a working boat.

 

[FWTMD]

Well, that plan is shot.

So its choices: do what you can, with limits, for 2020, and then fix it properly.

Or, put another hole in the boat and go do the boating you want, and explain all of that to subsequent owners when its time to sell.

Those are the choices YOU outline. Its a shame, but no magic bullet cures on that one one.

 

[BB marine]

The 1" is marginal at best with the C26 220 D3. I have a 2016 model. 430hrs it reaches 193 F to 196 F at WOT, bring the rpm down to 3500rpm 185 F, 2250 178F. The increases in temperature with rpm is do to the marginal water flow from the 1" thru hull. Volvo specs the minimum size thru hull at 1 1/4 ". The sized thru hull works when there is no restrictions in the coolers, reverse gear cooler, after cooler and heat exchanger. The restricted flow gives no room for error. The C26 is slightly underpowered with the D3 so if you plan on running it at designed advertised cruise speed you will need to run it hard. The restricted raw water cooling and lack of engine compartment ventilation causes the engine to run in the upper temperature limits of design. Has stated by dclagett the reverse gear cooler can get restricted. Increasing raw water intake thru hull and compartment ventilation helps in lowing the operating temperature of the engine. Additionally I installed a raw water flow alarm, exhaust temperature alarm, two 150 cfm exhaust blowers, and 5 air vents to help lower engine compartment temperature. I found the operating air temperature of the compartment to exceed 160 F when running the engine at 3200 rpm after a couple hours of cruising. The added ventilation keeps the compartment 30 to 35F cooler helping to keep the operating temperature of the engine at 3200 rpm at 180F. I really like the boat but Cutwater didn't do their homework when they changed the power plant. Original motor was a 180 hp Yanmar. Turbo and exhaust is located in the open section of the engine compartment. The D3 220 hp the turbo is located under the deck in the aft section of the pilot house. Exhaust temperatures at the turbo can reach close to 1000F. This area gets very warm. With the issues I have found the Cutwater representatives response was, "Thats how we build them, we have had no temperature issues with this model there is nothing wrong with the design." I purchased the boat new in 2016 and have resolved many of the flaws and issues myself. I did have a Turbo/ aftercooler hose fail at 400hrs. The hose delaminated from what appeared to be excessive heat. Volvo replaced the turbo and hose under the extended warranty. Fluid Motion did reimburse me for some fiberglass work I did at the anchor chute where they didn't complete the bond between the hull and the deck. It leaked when in heavy seas or driving rain. Once you get a few of the design flaws ironed out it is a comfortable cruising boat. With all of the C26 flaws I still really like the boat. For the most part it is a quality built boat. Good luck with your new C26.

 

[Kevin Lamont]

Hello Cutwater Factory,
My husband and I just recently bought a 2015 Cutwater 26 from a Broker ( dealership in Yarmouth Maine). It has the Volvo D3 220 engine with only 112hrs on it. There was an overheating issue that showed up on the sea trial that the dealer thought they had addressed before we signed the paperwork and took the boat to our slip in Amesbury, MA. Our first time putting it in the water it was clearly still having the overheating issues so the dealer sent a service tech down to replace the impeller that did, in fact need replacing. While he was still there, we took it out for another sea trial and noticed that it was still overheating at high RPMs. The temp would dip back down when we let off the throttle. He couldn't identify the issue other than it looked like there was not enough water pressure coming through the seacock into the sea strainer. He was concerned that the bottom paint was obstructing the flow. They came down with a truck and hauled the boat back to Maine to try to find the issue on Monday. Today they notified us that the issue was with the actual construction of the boat. Their exact words "Based on our Volvo manual that motor requires a 1 ¼” seacock, and it only has a 1” and there should never be a hard 90deg fitting on a motor inlet, only a swept 90. Couple that with the extra items pulling off that strainer and it’s a recipe for high temp."
This cutwater was basically brand new with no modifications and we are trying to figure out how this could be a problem for us and not other Cutwaters of same year and model. They are offering to create another seacock and add another sea strainer dedicated to just the engine but at our cost for parts. We are very hesitant to have another hole drilled in our hull and want to talk to a Cutwater technician first to see if they have any advice or have seen this before. I belive the dealer planned on trying to reach out but we wanted to be proactive. We have very short summers here in New England and this will be over a month of owning this boat without being able to really use it. Please Help!

Hello,

How many hours are on the boat? Did you happen to get any service records with the boat? I haven’t seen this issue before while testing boats with the D4 engines. I would be wondering if the heat exchanger has been serviced. If it hasn’t been serviced I would start with that along with finding out if the coolant has been replaced. If the cooler hasn’t been cleaned and the coolant hasn’t been serviced that could cause an overheat issue. I typically see maintenance causing more issues then not if it has been lacking. Also you mentioned the impeller needed to be replaced, what was the condition of the old one? If it was missing find or chunks were missing that could cause a clog. My email is below in my signature, i would be happy to discuss this more.

Thanks,
Kevin Lamont

 

[Anniecandy18]

I emailed the Factory Rep but thought I should post a response on here for anyone else who might be experiencing this issue.

My response:
The Volvo D3 engine has a little over 112 hours on it (that was the hours when we bought it). We do have all the service records on the boat but with that low hours, there was not much maintenance required. The impeller was replaced and they went through and made sure any parts were removed from the heat exchanger etc. It is only overheating at high RPM and gets to about 198 degrees F at 2800 RPM before we back off the throttle. If we keep it at low RPM there is no overheat issue. The full explanation of the sequence of and what the service tech said was in my original post.
I pulled the maintenance records and it does look like the coolant was checked and some added at least on one of the recipes attached. ( I attached a service record with a charge for Volvo Penta Extended life Coolant - 1 Gallon concentrate.)

Kevin from Cutwater:
Thank you for that record, one thing that pops out to me is they only charged for 1 gallon of coolant. The D4 holds over 4 gallons of Volvo coolant and should NEVER be mixed with water. I am wondering if they replaced the coolant with a 50/50 mix of coolant and water. Also concerning they only used one gallon of coolant.

Again like I said this is the first time I have heard of concerns with the engine hose size, we have Volvo in house whenever we build a new boat with their engine so they can inspect and sign off on our install. I would still be leaning towards a coolant issue or a heat exchanger issue. Also this coolant service was done over 3yrs ago and Volvo recommends it be done every 2yrs, I think it’s a little excessive for every 2yrs but depending on use it may need to be serviced correctly.

I replied:
Perhaps just a typo, but we have the D3 220 turbo diesel not the D4. We had both the surveyor and the service tech check the coolant level before we bought the boat. Both said that it looked fine but not sure they would be able to tell if it was a mix. I will certainly bring it up with the dealership to have them check it again. Like I said, the engine has only about 112hrs and was not used at all for most of 2019 so it should not have needed to be done again. It is possible The previous owner never even used the boat at high speed at all since it was only ever in a freshwater lake.
The concern is not so much with the hose size but the actual size of the seacock hole In the hull. That model Volvo engine calls for a 1.25" diameter hole and the current hole size is 1".
Basically the service department at the dealer has proposed putting in a new seacock, sea strainer and all new hookups directly to the engine to help with the overheating that occurs at RPMs higher than 2600. I just want to make sure that putting in another throughhull is not going to cause any problems the service guys are not thinking of.

I never got a reply from Cutwater.

The conclusion was that the Dealer did put in a new Seacock, Large heavy duty brass Seastrainer and all new connections directly to the engine. Cudos to them, they had the boat back to us in one Week! We have already done a couple long trips with the boat since then and no overheat issues at all even with wide open throttle. The Dealer only charged us for part, not labor and we are Very happy with the outcome.

 

[FWTMD]

GREAT OUTCOME

Thanks for looping back with this

 

[BB marine]

The concern is not so much with the hose size but the actual size of the seacock hole In the hull. That model Volvo engine calls for a 1.25" diameter hole and the current hole size is 1".
Basically the service department at the dealer has proposed putting in a new seacock, sea strainer and all new hookups directly to the engine to help with the overheating that occurs at RPMs higher than 2600. I just want to make sure that putting in another throughhull is not going to cause any problems the service guys are not thinking of.

This statement is correct. The Volvo installation manual for D2 Volvo's and D3 manuals calls for a 1 1/4" thru hull water intake. This is specification matches the sea water pump specification flow requirements . The engine cooling design requires more water flow during higher engine operation. This additional flow is increased by the engine operating at higher rpm turning the sea pump impeller faster. The 1" thru hull will not allow enough water flow to meet the demands of the pump. Combine the limited thru hull size with the creative plumbing consisting of several 90 degree elbows and Fluid Motion has created a mechanical engineers nightmare. There are flow restriction in this design. End result higher high speed operating temperature. I have talked to Ranger Tug R25, R27 and Cutwater C26 owners that see elevated engine temperatures when running in the upper rpm range. ( Yanmar or Volvo ) Any fouling puts operating tempetures in upper 190's to low 200's. My opinion, this is do to a marginal at best install.

I never got a reply from Cutwater.

There is a simple reply. Look in the Volvo parts manual for the part number for a D3 water intake, 110 hp to 220hp D3 part number (1140129) cooling water inlet- description D = 32mm, 32mm = 1.259 or 1 1/4" . Simple Answer!

Again like I said this is the first time I have heard of concerns with the engine hose size, we have Volvo in house whenever we build a new boat with their engine so they can inspect and sign off on our install.

[/quote]



This surprises me, this issue has been brought up in many threads, I'm posting a couple that come to mind.

The originator of the thread below after painting his bottom still had over heat issues. I spoke with him at the SWF rendezvous. Fluid Motion told him there is no issue with the install 1" works fine. He worked with Volvo and they advised that the thru hull be increased to 1 1/4". Volvo Penta assisted the Tug owner with the conversion 1" to 1 1/4". He said that after the conversion his higher temp issues went away. Many owners operate their Tugs and Cuts at lower rpm and this issue is not a problem.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6946&p=49236&hilit=thru+hull+to+small#p49236


Same boat as yours
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14292&p=94906#p94906

The 1" thru hull works marginally. It may have helped to do a chemical flush to remove any exchanger tube obstructions but the larger thru hull is the OEM Volvo installation recommendation. In the future a flush may be in order, it's not a bad idea to do for preventative maintenance and also recommended by Volvo.

Congratulations, New owners of a C26! I agree Cudo's to the selling dealer for stepping up and doing the right repair. Enjoy cruising the east coast.

 

[Andrew Custis]

Just to chime in, I think the biggest issue might be the difference in water temps where you cruise. I know of a D3 150HP with over 2,000 hours on it that has never had this issue and know of a 220HP D3 with over 1,000 hours without over heating issues. You would think if the thru hull was the real cause that the original owner would have complained about this during their ownership. Surprising that you do not hear chatter about this issue coming from many parts of the country. I have never heard of this issue coming from our waters. I know that they did not overheat early on so potentially an issue down the line that has restricted water flow through the original seacock. Either way, glad the dealer took care of you!

Have fun in your new boat!