2015 R21ec whine

[ohioan55]

I'm getting a low whine when cruising at around 1200 to 1400 RPM. Since I'm new to this boat, I don't know whether this is typical or whether I've got an issue with the reverse gear or cutlass bearing. The engine only has 130 hours on it so I'd be surprised if it's the cutlass, but I never rule out anything. Anyone else experience this?

 

[ohioan55]

Well, the whine has developed in to something more. Now the boat has a very noticeable whine, vibration, hum going on after a few minutes in gear. And the packing tube becomes hot to the touch. Prior to launch the cutlass was checked and there was no noticeable play. The shaft spins freely by hand and the packing nut doesn't leak. Where could my problem lie and what should I check? Thanks for any insight you may give.

 

[ixlr8]

Well, the whine has developed in to something more. ..... The shaft spins freely by hand and the packing nut doesn't leak. Where could my problem lie and what should I check? Thanks for any insight you may give.

Does the packing nut leak when running? When the shaft is spinning, if you have a standard packing you should have a few drips a minute. This cools and lubricates the shaft bearing/packing. No drips when shaft is not turning.

 

[ohioan55]

The packing nut is adjusted to one drip every 2 - 3 seconds. The whine went away last year and ran fine most of the season. We launched the boat today (first time this year) and the whine is back (under 2000 RPM). packing appears to be adjusted ok with a drip every 2-3 seconds. My question at this point is can the packing dry out over several months of dry storage? Do I need to replace the packing. I'll let it set for a couple days with a slow drip and check again. I only have 157 hours on the engine (2015 boat), so unless the boat was run with the packing nut too tight (no drip), I would think it would not have bad packing. Anyone advice is appreciated.

 

[ohioan55]

PS. it stays cool to the touch.

 

[ohioan55]

I'm starting to be concerned this may be an alignment issue. I'm getting ready to take the boat out again to check some things out. And I may look at what I need to do to uncouple the shaft to check alignment. Anyone done this before on a R21ec? Also, is the cutlass bearing babbit metal or is there a rubber part to it? Thanks to all

 

[bjp447]

This probably has nothing to do with your problem. I am throw it out as a ' don't dig a hole"
I had a rattle that started last year. we could not figure out what it was but only a specific RPM
and definitely from the shaft area. I even had a diver look at it from under. Turns out when doing
some wiring a battery in the stern got shifted. The boat is a 2012 and those batteries had pretty much
settled in place and adjusted the bulkhead to their weight. Changing that weight caused a vibration that
happened a small rpm range. The batteries weighed 50 lbs. I put a 50 lb weight back were the battery was
and the issue went away. Like I said this had nothing to do with your issue, but we were considering pulling
the drive shaft to check alignment. These boats are solid! don't dig yourself a hole.

 

[bob daily]

If only at a certain RPM range, another cause could be prop sing. It has been discussed on this forum in the past and I believe was on a R-21. Just a thought. Bob

 

[ohioan55]

The whine is quite loud and occurs when in forward with rpms all the way to 2000. No noise in reverse. It's not prop sing, I know what that sounds like (I'm an ex-submarine sonarman). Today's testing, I played with the shaft packing and don't believe it has anything to do with this issue. The shaft and log/hose was getting hot today, even with a lot of water coming past the packing. This shouldn't be. I still think I have an alignment issue. I guess I need to pull the boat, uncouple the shaft, and do some end play measurements. It would be nice if there was more room......

 

[CaptT]

Just thinking out loud here, but did you check the hose going to the log and see if it's flowing and not blocked? The water you are seeing around the stuffing box maybe from outside the boat, backflow from outside of the cutless bearing, and not from the log hose. The hose being hot may be a symptom of the restricted or blocked flow.
I remember reading something like this happened when a piece of anode made it through from the heat exchanger to block the hose.
Terry

 

[Newf]

CaptT,, There is no secondary hose on this R21-EC. The cooling is from water coming through the cutlass bearing, shaft log and hose.

Ohioan55--You can break the coupling and do an alignment check with the boat in the water unless it's more convenient to for you to pull it. Just back off the 4 coupling bolts only enough to separate the coupling faces a bit. Check the gap between the two faces at top, bottom and side to side with feeler gauges.

You are correct in saying there is not lots of room but it is doable. I do alignment checks on mine at 4-500 hr intervals. I've also replace the engine mounts on mine twice now and cutlass bearing once.

If alignment is good you should get .003" or less in the difference between the different positions on the coupling. Final alignment check should be done with the boat in the water.

With the boat out of the water is there any play between the shaft and cutlass bearing if you try to lift or shake it around at the prop. You should feel very minimal movement.

 

[Newf]

Forgot to answer your question on the cutlass bearing. It is a bronze or brass bushing lined with rubber. Mine was a

Morse Marine Bearing
BONITO
1 X 1.5 X 4
E00800

Photo in my album of the bearing.

 

[ohioan55]

Thanks Newf. I think I'll pull it and do it in the lot near the ramps. Already checked the bolt/nut size (5/8), so I'll take a pair or wrenches plus a feeling gauge when I do this. It will also allow me to check any movement in the cutlass while I have it decoupled. One thing I didn't mention was that when I fired the diesel up this spring (on the trailer), I noticed movement in the starboard forward engine mount. One bolt was loose and I tightened it. All other bolts where tight, but this is another reason I steered more readily to an alignment issue. Noise has been an issue (for me) ever since I got this boat and it's time to put it to rest.

 

[Newf]

Good luck and hope you get this figured out.

You may know more about this than I do and maybe I'm just mis-understanding your comment about checking for movement in the cutlass bearing once you have the shaft decoupled. Once decoupled you will have lots of play in the shaft especially at the coupling end. Remember that the shaft just sits in a 4" long cutlass bearing that's lined with rubber so with the coupling halves totally separated you will be able move the shaft up and down and side to side at the coupling end by probably up to an inch.

The best way to check for cutlass bearing wear is to try to move the shaft around at the prop end while it's still coupled to the transmission. With less than 200hrs on your engine I would not expect much wear unless the alignment is way out or it got chewed up by something.

While it's decoupled and the two halves totally separated, give the transmission (reverse gear) coupling a good check to see if you have any up and down, side to side movement in the end bearing.

I apologize in advance if I mis-understood your comment.

Hope you have it all sorted out soon.

Newf

 

[ohioan55]

I expected some movement, but what I meant was it would allow me to 'feel' the cutlass bearing without outside influence, if that makes sense. I typically check for shaft movement while on the trailer when installing or removing the garboard drain plug. I have never noticed any, but something is making this noise. If I don't resolve it, I'll have to get an expect in to look at it. As I said, it's not the packing, I totally loosened the nut until it was just riding on the shaft, and this had no effect on the sound. I'd post a video, but that feature doesn't seem to work now.

 

[Thatguy]

Is it possible that you are hearing noise from the forward end of the engine - ie belt whine, alternator or idler pulley whine? Just throwing it out there - be sure to eliminate all the simple stuff first.
JP

 

[ohioan55]

Update: I did separate the coupling and, using a feeler gauge, measured .015" on the port side and 0 on the starboard. This supports my belief that the engine is sitting 'cattywampus' and needs to be lined back up. I did not complete the job yesterday as I needed more tools :roll: . Specs call for less than .003, side to side and top to bottom. Wish I could post pics, but will let all know if this solves the issue. Thanks to all that responded.

 

[ohioan55]

Another update: The cutlass bearing was trashed, to quote the yard that did the work. Evidently it was quite a job, they ended up pulling the shaft as well. Problem is the whine is still present. Still need to do an alignment after a few days in the water (again). I'll have the diesel mechanic do it this time.