2016 21-EC Air Cinditioning

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wilsonballew

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Fluid Motion Model
C-24 C SE
Vessel Name
Gilgamesh
Can anyone tell me the make/model of 12v DC air conditioning system used on the 2016 Ranger 21-EC tug? How effective is the system at cooling the pilot house?
 
The only one I’m familiar with is the Dometic Cuddy II 12 volt 3500 Btu unit. My experience with the 12 volt AC was if the temperature got over 85 degrees F it did not have the capacity to keep the cabin comfortable. Additionally it takes a considerable amount of battery amps to operate the unit.
 
I have a Dometic 3500 BTU in my 2014. Note that although it can be referred to as a 12-V unit, it is really a 110-V unit run off a dedicated inverter.

Bright sun 85-90 degrees it gets marginal. It helps to put reflective sun blocking material in all three overhead openings. I also put up shades/curtains all around when off the boat so it doesn't start off at 120 degrees. It also helps to aim the discharge air right at yourself. I would characterize the interior as much better than outside in the sun, but not as cool as most people set an AC unit at. It does a nice job of dehumidifying though, which is an important aspect of warm weather comfort. All the above is based on my experience up in New England with very cold sea water. I believe warmer sea water can adversely affect system performance.

Larry
 
Thank you for the quick response. It seems that I should not have too much of an expectation from the units performance. I'm in the process of purchasing a 2016 with air and the survey is happening on the 8th. I did not want to have a false premise about how it should perform and make an issue out of it.

I have seen other posts where folks have tried different configurations to get more battery life at least while on shore power; one idea was to replace the 20 amp charger with a 50 or 60 amp charger [ProNautics 1250P]. Of course that may resolve the battery drain issue when on shore power, but if the overall AC unit is just not up to performance, it really does not matter. 3,500 btu seems a bit on the light side and there are several alternative 12v units out on the market with a 5k btu rated. That said, I know that 110v units perform well [and are much cheaper price wise] than the 12v cousins, so perhaps a swap out and go the Honda generator route. I'm in Baltimore mid-atlantic region and the humidity is a real challenge when at dock during the Summer.

Tom
 
Wouldn’t it be cheaper - and more efficient - to rewire to AC so that it could be powered from either shore power or inverter? I’m assuming the 2016 is also a 110 unit. It doesn’t make sense to me to spend the coin on a bigger charger.
JP
 
The system draws around 40 amps at 12 V. You would need to tow a dinghy full of batteries to get any reasonable run time on batteries alone. JP's suggestion about rewiring for 110V operation is good. I have in fact done it. My AC unit now has a household type plug that can be plugged into either a newly installed inverter (with built in outlets) for use under way, or a shore power extension cord, or a small generator on the swim platform. PM for instructions on how to do this if you are interested.

Larry
 
Thanks guys...agreed converting to 110v and an inverter makes good sense. Larry I will PM you.

Tom
 
Why not use the inverter that is already part of the system?
J.P.
 
I had problems with the original inverter shutting down for no apparent reason. It acted like maybe it was overheating. I bought a 1600 watt inverter that doesn't have to work very hard to run the AC. The particular one I bought also displays the input DC voltage and the AC load in watts, which is interesting if nothing else. The new inverter also can be used for other purposes, like my wife's coffee making electric kettle. Made her more understanding of the time I spent on the project. The original inverter cannot easily be made to run without running the AC.

Larry
 
Re: Ranger 21 EC AC install
Postby Capt'nKarl on Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:39 pm
Details of A/C install on 2009 Ranger 21 EC. When we purchased our tug it came with a “factory installed” 12 Volt A/C unit. It never worked. Living in Florida I knew it would be difficult to have comfortable sleeping conditions during the summer months. We have a 12 volt fan which works great until the temperature goes above 85 degrees and the humidity is high. So after the first sleepless night sweltering in a marina I knew it was time to look into installing a new A/C unit. Fortunately, as I said, the boat already had a raw water thru-hull , strainer and thru-hull for water discharge from the A/C unit. This ultimately made the decision to install a new unit much easier as I would have been rather apprehensive to drill holes through the boat. I started gathering information about different units, spoke with several boat A/C installers about prices to have the unit professionally installed and finally made a decision. I purchased my unit from Wright Marine Air Conditioning, Inc in Riverview Fl. The owners name is Wayne and he was very helpful before and after the purchase. Here are the details of the unit.

ECD6K-HV 410A Dometic (Marine Air) 6000 Btu, 115 Volt unit. Price: $1635.00
The unit includes a Passport I/O Display Keypad with 15 feet of cable. Additionally I purchased a MARCH LC2-115 V (Sea Water Pump) 310 GPH at a cost of $259.00. Additional expenses: Marine wiring 25 ft, 12 SS hose clamps, 2 waterproof MALE wire connectors, one “Y” electrical connector, one 4 inch flexible metal duct, one 4 inch round white air grille, Vinyl/fabric ducting 10 feet ( I only used 5ft) all cost approx. $100.00. From PANELTRONICS I purchased a 9982316B AC 30 AMP DP MAIN with reverse polarity for $ 76.48. All in all the total cost was about $2300.00.

My experience: I’m comfortable performing all the routine oil , filter, belt changes and impeller changes on the boat. Changing electrical switches, hooking up a garbage deposal and other small projects around the house, no problem. The work installing this unit is fairly simple however I am NOT an electrician so if you have any questions with the wiring please consult a professional.

Here’s how I proceeded. I wanted to keep the installation process simple but as flexible as possible. We have a HONDA generator that will power the A/C unit so I wanted the flexibility to connect the unit to either shore power or the generator. Additionally the unit can be powered by an inverter if you have the battery capacity (which at this time I do not).

The first thing I had to do was get shore power into the cabin. I used the battery cable from the old unit in the back compartment and taped the electrical cable to it and pulled everything through to the cabin. I made sure I had enough cable to run the entire length under the cabinet on the port side and then around to the wall under the sink. Once the cable was pulled I used the “Y” connector. I cut off the MALE end of the “Y” and connected that segment to the existing power input on the boat. The two FEMALE ends of the “Y” connector were left intact. The wire from the battery charger was connected to a waterproof MALE connector. The end of the electrical cable running into the cabin was also connected to a waterproof MALE connector. This gives me the flexibility to use either FEMALE “Y” connections for any device or generator. After running the wire I had to decide on how to position the A/C unit. This new unit is about the same size as the previous unit but I did not like the way the air was discharged from the 12 V unit. I wanted to make sure the sleeping area was cooled. I positioned the unit with the filter facing the cabinet opening so the air discharge, the water intake and output are all facing the port side. Once I was happy with the position I attached the base plate to the floor using the clamps provided. Next, running the duct work. I wanted the sleeping area to be the main area to be cooled. There is a cup holder on the port side of the cabin. I removed the cup holder and enlarged the hole to 4 inches to accommodate the round discharge grille. I used a flexible duct joint I purchases at Lowes and connected the ducting from the A/C unit to the grille. The thru-hull and strainer were already in place. The raw water pump was placed inside the port cabinet. The mounting plate of the pump has no cushion and I was concerned about vibration so I placed some foam material under the pump and secured it to the floor. Running the hoses was simple. Attach to the thru-hull to the pump then out of the pump to the A/C intake. Another hose from the A/C discharge to the existing thru-hull and done. I had to make one other modification for the main breaker. I wanted to use the old site of the thermostat to mount the breaker but didn’t have enough room for the duct work and the breaker. I moved the audio input device from the old site and put it where the thermostat used to be. I cut the starboard at the site of the audio input to fit the main breaker (see picture). Wiring was pretty simple. Connect black to black, white to white, green to ground. The A/C unit has a main electronic box I mounted on the wall under the sink. The thermostat plugs in like a telephone. I removed the vanes from the old A/C air discharge and put the new thermostat there. Looks fantastic I think!. All connected and ready to try. First time out? FANTASTIC!! Worked like a charm. Going out again next weekend when the water temperature is higher to see how the unit works. Please let me know if anyone has any questions.

Cheers,

Karl
 
Hi All...thanks for all of the responses and suggestions. I did a little more research on the version of the Cuddy DC II that was installed in the 2016/2017 tugs and the unit has a dedicated power module (DPM); everything says 12v system so still unclear if the DPM is converting to 110v or if the unit is a true 12v system. In any event, the installation manual recommends a dedicated battery bank of minimum two batteries, a minimum 50 amp battery charger. Supplemental power is through the charger (when on shore power) and of course the engine alternator when underway. If I recall correctly, the Volvo Penta has a 115 amp alternator that puts out 100 amps at cruise. The Dometic pulls 30 amps (blower, compressor and pump).

I also read that the sizing of the unit for a pilot house setup such as ours with all the windows is to calculate approximately 19-22 btu per cubic foot of space. I don't know the CF capacity for the 21-EC, but I am guessing that the 3,500 btu unit is marginal at best. Dometic says all things being equal, the unit should be able to cool ambient air by 15 degrees at discharge.

So out-of-the-box this setup would appear to be a good solution for the 21-EC on paper. Obviously, real world performance does not support that. I did speak to the Rasnger folks a few months ago when I was lookimg at a 2017 tug and they confirmed that on paper everything looks good, but the unit never performed to expectations. The issue was not so much the electrical power side of the equation, but the unit's underpowered btu for the application.

There are several manufacturers that make higher btu 12v units pulling about the same (or less) amps than the Dometic, however these 12v units are more than double/triple the price of the 110v version.

So with all that being said, as others have posted, the solution is to convert to 110v with an inverter. It looks like both Larry and Kirk have done that very successfully.

I did see that Cruise N Comfort out of Arizona makes a true 12v (no inverter operates directly from batteries and/or charger) 6,000 btu unit that pulls between 21 and 30 amps depending on blower speed; unit is 22Lx12Wx10.5H so not sure it would fit in the current space. The downside is price at $4,000 and limited parts availability. Clearly technology is making strides, but like most things, very costly compared to the "norm" out in the market. Interesting thing about the Cruise poduct is they use multiple dc powered compressors in the unit to achieve power efficiency through a step process.



Tom
 
Dometic's "DPM" is the inverter.
 
Quick update - Boat survey was completed yesterday and I was able to confirm that the tug has the 20 amp charger. This is interesting because on two different installation sheets for the Cuddy II AC system, it is clearly stated that the minimum size battery charger should be 50 amps. Curious why such a small charger would be installed for a boat with two sets of batteries and an AC unit that you can run off shore power through the charger.
 
And now you see the problem with this system. The charger will not keep up the the drain on the batteries.
 
Hi All - Just wanted to update that after swapping out the ProNautics 1220P [20 amp] with a 1250P [50 amp], I am able to run the Air Conditioning connected to shore power with no drain on the batteries. The 1250P handles the AC with no problem; I ran the AC for several hours today and no issues. The AC also runs fine when underway and the Volvo alternator seems to keep up with the demand, so it looks like swapping out the battery charger solved my issue.

Also, the 1250P fit nicely in the same spot where the 1220P was mounted, so no alterations other than upgrading the wiring and fuses. Overall, the 3,500 btu unit puts out cold air, but I think it will struggle in hotter weather. For now, we will give it a go next season and determine if an upgrade to a 5K or 6K unit would be better.

My marine tech is installing an AC power breaker box, as the higher amp charger requires a breaker [with the 1220P, from the factory, 120v AC power is connected directly to the charger with no breaker]. The current setup works [without a breaker], but lacks safety standards required under ABYC with the new charger. As long as we are installing a 120v AC breaker panel, he is replacing the current charger extension cord type plug-in receptacle with a 30-amp marine connection that will wire to the breaker panel first, and then a 15 amp breaker to supply the battery charger and a 20 amp breaker that will be supplying a new 120v line being installed into the pilot house for a GFI receptacle. Finally, the last upgrade is the addition of a ProMarine 30 amp galvanic isolator to finish the project. All-in-all really pleased with how everything has turned out.

Tom
 
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