2019 R-29 Quality Construction Issues from Factory

[bensmiata]

Good afternoon!

We are the owners of a 2019 R-29 purchased new. We love the boat overall, and it is extremely well designed. We have had several issues with quality however from the factory that make us question the longevity of a $330k boat, if a warranty claim is even possible in a timely fashion and how it was put together.

I'll detail these issues (discovered so far) here:

1. There was a clogged waterline to the hot water heater that we brought up with the dealer and the manufacturer. It took us eight months of emails and phone calls to get the dealer/manufacturer to address this issue. We were unable to have hot water during the time. It turns out it was a clogged water line from the factory and we had to bring out our own technician (on our own dime which was not reimbursed) to diagnose the issue to get any movement under the warranty for this issue.
2. The forward bilge pump discharge line in the engine compartment was unsecured from the factory and was severed by the pulleys on the front of the engine. This could have been a major issue (this is an area of serious safety concern to me), especially seeing as we came from a 2015 R-27 with the flawed D3-200 which had a flooded engine compartment (this engine was "not designed for marine use" according to our dealer, and our boat before we traded it on the R-29 was on its third engine before 100 hours of overall hull operation).
3. A capacitor on the forward AC/heat unit was unsecured and swinging freely from the factory, this put a lot of stress on just the two wires that secures it, and was easily secured with two zip ties.
4. While addressing #2 we discovered trash in the bilge (plastic bag and hose clamps) that had been left from the factory, this could have obstructed the bilge pump operation, which is obviously of concern given #2.

If I could figure out how to post pictures here I would, if someone would like to share how to do that, I will post pictures of these issues.

These are the issues discovered with ~46 hours of engine operation. I would recommend everyone do a once over on their boats to look for issues like these, we will be pulling the boat apart shortly to look for any similar issues to address them proactively. I hope this post assists current and future owners of a Ranger vessel in their purchasing/ownership due diligence. We'll enjoy this vessel while we have it, but it will be our last Ranger.

 

[Matty]

Thankfully none of your issues will impact longevity of your new vessel. Ranger Tugs has great custmer service so you should be able to get all items taken care of promptly. A thorough inspection by new owners makes a lot of sense given the $$.
Send any list of QC items to them as I am sure they want to know and improve. Enjoy!

 

[SJI Sailor]

Unfortunately this sounds relatively normal (for example, see here about our experience with 2019 C30: http://www.tugnuts.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=13580).

On one hand, these boats (like all cruising boats) are hand built in low quantities, so there will be issues. OTOH, so are small airplanes, which have higher quality. OTOOH, small airplanes cost a lot more relative to the amount of systems, etc., and owners cannot work on most things!

So I suppose it's another version of "every boat is a compromise". Although it is rightly frustrating and a situation that dealers could communicate better (and be more careful with delivery inspections!)

 

[trailertrawlerkismet]

The dealer you bought the boat from gets compensated for delivering you the boat in proper working order. If you had/have problems it is up to an owner to work with the dealer to resolve any problems, as they get reimbursed for warranty work. In my opinion I feel your displeasure should be directed at your dealer and not RT. The items in question, on the surface, appear to be all workably corrected with proper communication. We’ve owned 2 RT’s, 3rd on order and the first two boats had problems not dissimilar to yours but the factory......who we bought our boats from.....stepped up and corrected whatever problem we encountered. Did not give up be more proactive with the dealer and if they don’t satisfy your requirements I’d suggest getting ahold of the factory.

Jim

 

[dmecimore]

For what it's worth, the dealer I purchased from was simply not able/equipped to deal with warranty issues I had. I had frustrations similar to what it sounds like you are having.

But, RT stepped in and contacted me directly and took care of the issues completely.

My advice is, give RT a chance to make things right. 🙂

 

[Capt’nKarl]

I’ll preface my response by saying I too love my Ranger Tug despite some issues but let’s be honest here. The clogged hot water line was not the fault of the RT dealer. According to the original post the problem originated from the factory. Once found, at the owners time and expense, it took 8 months to resolve. I say BS. Totally unacceptable. Yes these boats are made one at a time but so are Ferrari automobiles. If you discovered the air conditioning didn’t work in your new Ferrari I guarantee you it wouldn’t take 8 months to get it fixed. The awe shucks it’s just a 300k boat so let’s let not complain excuse is crazy. Customers must share problems found on their boats and hold Fluid Motion responsible to fix them in a timely manner. Period. Enough said on that issue but here’s a interesting tidbit. While exploring my 2018 R-23 trying to find where the factory placed the solar panel controller (it’s NOT mounted in the port lazaret where the manual reports it to be) I used a flexible fiber optic scope to look into places that are inaccessible without dismantling the boat. Did I find the solar panel controller? No. What I did find was Sam Adams beer bottle caps that could only have been left there from when the boat was built. Was this a factory mistake?

 

[SJI Sailor]

Although I agree with the sentiment that these are the dealer's responsibility, that assumes that the dealer's tech is competent.

In our case, the dealer's subcontracted mobile techs made several issues worse. So I would give the dealer a chance, but then switch it to RT if needed, or just handle it yourself and chalk it up to experience.

We do love our C30 though!

 

[Matty]

I think we all know that if proper channels were followed that a plugged water line would be fixed promptly and reimbursed. Sometimes it requires going over the dealers head.. All of my warranty issues and several non-warranty issues were promptly handled. I agree that one might wish the QC was better for these relatively small these issues but they are always well handled. I hope the OP enjoys the many benefits of owning an RT.

 

[Bobby P.]

What is troubling for me is that somebody might have been drinking Sam Adams beer on my boat prior to delivery. Really, Sam Adams? With all of the tasty IPAs available, particularly in the Northwest, the factory deserves to be shamed!

In all seriousness, having been part of a family owned business, post sale issues should be resolved quickly and with quality. My father would always take care of the customer first on any new sale, and then when necessary go to the manufacturer to collect. What I've found really great about Fluid Motion AND my dealer was that either party has always been right there to help, as needed.

Good luck moving forward. These are great boats to enjoy!

Best,
Bobby

 

[CAPTCRUNCH]

I'd sure like to hear more from the OP about the "R-27 with the flawed D3-200" since I've had one for 7 years and still don't know about the "flaw."

 

[BB marine]

This subject comes up from time to time on TugNuts. I will admit I have presented it a few times with issues that I found with my C26. It may appear to be complaining to many but it is a two fold post. One letting folks know of the issues I found and letting the Fluid Motion folks know too. They read many of the post. Most of the issues that you have had were issues with installed equipment not build issues. Between the dealer and the factory the issues should have been resolved. If you buy a new boat then it should be fixed. This was my biggest complaint. Some of the dealers are good sale people but have poor service departments or no service department and rely on outside contractors for repair. This is not the best way to do business but it seems to be a trend. Warranty items should be done by the selling dealer. The factory builds boats and dealers sell them. The factory is responsible to work with the dealer to make sure the customer is taken care of.

If a boat owner finds that neither is coming through and the results are null. Then it's time to introduce a consumer advocate. This is not a legal battle it is just letting someone else look at what is going on. I had an issue with my C26 that was not a failed component, not a flaw in workmanship but in my opinion a flaw in design. I had spoken with the dealer "shoulder shrug" I had spoken with Fluid Motion "that's the way we build them" I then contacted Boat US consumer advocate. The first response was we have never had a complaint about Ranger and Cutwater boats. The consumer group looked at my complaint and found it to be warranted to research because it involved Volvo and ABYC recommendations and the design did not follow them. The point of this is give Fluid Motion a chance to repair the problems. Email one of the customer service Reps. and tell them your issues. Email Ralf he does the warranty claims and while it takes time for results he does come through.( I would not want his job !!! ) If this doesn't work send Boat US an email and let them look at the issues and see if they can help.

This is a comment about the D3. The dealer you spoke to was misinformed. It sounds like a typical dealer passing the buck as you write the check for an expensive repair. The D3 is an automotive engine that was converted to marine use. Volvo Penta has used this engine in a marine application for almost 20 years. It has had several revisions over the years. The 2015 Volvo D3 is of the current revision. If the D3 is maintained properly and kept out of salt water, closed cooling system flushed every couple years, raw water side flushed regularly and impeller replaced on a regular preventative maintenance program, proper installed propeller. ( 4000rpm max throttle) The D3 will last 2000 to 4000 hours depending on type of use. The marine down fall to the D3 is the front section of the engine. You do not want water up to or near the pulleys. ( there should never be water there. The unfortunate issue is the location that Fluid Motion puts the high water alarm and high water bilge pump. It is to high and if it alarms or the pump comes on you probably did damage to the Raw water pump tensioner pulley and the timing belt tensioner pulley. If these pulleys get contaminated with salt water you will be having problems down the line. If a D3 gets saltwater contamination to the front section of the motor it's time for some serious maintenance. If this maintenance is not done you will most likely have a timing belt failure that will result in a engine failure. If the raw water pump pulley tensioner gets contaminated with salt water it will seize too. (Keep this engine clean, dry, and salt free.) and it will give you many years of service.

All the issues that your post is referring to should have been dealt with when the PDI sheet was checked, factory, dealer and then you the consumer. I highly recommend that if a new Ranger or Cutwater owner is taking delivery of their new boat. Insist that the PDI check sheet is present and have the dealer go over each item with you check the item that are installed correctly and working properly. The items that are in question should be repaired and rechecked before the full delivery process is done and the final payment made. You would be surprised how fast the repairs are completed.Hold the dealer accountable!

 

[FWTMD]

A few points to state the obvious.

1) No matter what you contract for, be it a new home, major work to be done, or new boat, the contractor or dealer wants the check NOW. Very often there will be some combo of pressure on you to write it. The winning smile with a "trust me, we will get it done next week," or irritated "you are being unreasonable" sorts of passive aggressive stuff.

Its on YOU to draw the line where YOU want to see the line drawn.

Everyone of us has bad stories to tell on all sorts of things we have seen in life. Where we didn't draw the line where we wished we had. The old line comes into play: Judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement. We all want to point the finger elsewhere, since that's natural. But often its on us, and we don't want to admit it.

If you decide to write the big check before the work is completed, just ask yourself one simple question: if the "trust me" work isn't ever done, are you still OK with the purchase and prepared to handle it yourself?

2) Boats involve a lot of complex systems and constructions we depend on. None are turn-key, step aboard and just go, then tie it up on return and just leave. That is the stuff of cool ads and promo material, but is an unreasonable expectation. Its on you to go over every inch, every gasket, every nut, every clamp to check it, and recheck it. Often.

This starts immediately upon delivery. Finding trash years later is a sign the head wasn't poked where it should have been poked in the first season. Yeah that's a pain. But its also reality. One more thing that's on Fluid, on the dealer, and on you too. It should not be there, but one of the three of you should be spotting that early. Your own trash can find its way into dark corners, so look, find it, and remove it.

Where this website excels is in the good discussions of the various places that often need the most attention. Value added provided by experienced owners, with good responsiveness and participation by Fluid. That is uncommon.

3) The dealers will scream bloody murder you are unreasonable, but you have the option of paying out of pocket for a survey before accepting delivery. If you can't or won't put a good eye on everything up front, you can pay someone to do it. The decision is on you.

4) Homes, cars, and yes boats too involve design tradeoffs. Its on you to understand what they are and decide if they are acceptable to you, with your budget, your intended use, etc. As Brian points out, Volvo engines are high HP for not just their weight but also size dimensions. Some other brands simply won't fit into the Fluid models. The cockpit engine compartment is what it is, where it is, and its on you to decide if that's OK with you. But the Volvo choice gives you a diesel with the diesel advantages over gas and outboards. If you don't like the tradeoffs, there are outboard choices. Your choice. On you to understand them and make them.

There are a couple of ways to start a bloody bar fight in boat message boards. One is to argue about best anchors. Another is to argue about best chart plotter electronics. Another is to argue about best engines. Every single choice one owner will swear is the best has another owner swearing its the worst.

5) The Mission of Fluid boats is trailerable. That means dimensions and WEIGHT. The designs are for the boats to get on plane. That means WEIGHT issues. You can't just add thickness to the hull or beef up various things without paying a performance price. Understanding that is on you.

6) Yeah, there are issues that are needless, such as rainwater leaks on occasion from various deck installation stuff. Be prepared to chase whatever pops up on your boat as an issue. Or don't write the check.

___________________

My two cents on a quiet Saturday morning.

None of the above is news.

Should the dealers and Fluid bear some responsibility? Of course.

Should you bear some personal responsibility? Absolutely.

I confess to enjoying hunting down videos of maintenance stuff on boats. Its just a learning exerise. Last night I watched one on a very well known trawler brand with a very good reputation. The owner was rolling his eyes over the fact that getting to the nuts to open up and replace the raw water impeller were located in an all but inaccessible spot. Boats with stand-up engine rooms with room to at least crawl around all sides of every component are outside the budgets of anyone considering a Fluid boat. So take it as a given that all choices open to you have design and construction flaws. Understand them, and go in eyes wide open. Be thankful this site helps you do just that.

Find it, fix it, and get out on the water to enjoy it.

 

[Captaindeb]

Having commissioned a 75’ Marlow Explorer as it’s Captain, the concept of NEW means Not Everything Works. It took 6 months to iron out all its kinks.

 

[KennyMarrs]

Hello Ben,

I understand there were some issues on your boat that you and I have communicated on via email. In a perfect world warranty would run through your dealer and then to us at the factory. I know you had worked directly with one of our technicians to diagnose the hot water heater issue. Since the hot water on your boat can be heated while running the engine or on shore power some additional troubleshooting steps were needed. Regardless, I'm still willing to cover the technician's invoice who came out to perform the work as I stated in our previous emails. Please continue to reach out to us directly by phone or email with any other questions or concerns you have. We will always be here to help!

Thanks,
-Kenny

 

[FlyMeAway]

Totally unacceptable. Yes these boats are made one at a time but so are Ferrari automobiles. If you discovered the air conditioning didn’t work in your new Ferrari I guarantee you it wouldn’t take 8 months to get it fixed.

I know a couple of Ferrari owners (and a good friend who is a mechanic for Ferrari and Maserati) who would disagree with you there. It's one of the reasons Ferrari enthusiasts tend not to buy new; they almost always buy used (I've heard enthusiasts refer to people buying new as "chumps" -- not because of the cost, but because of the kinks). As someone else noted, NEW = "not everything works."

I discussed this at length in a separate thread, but I would never buy a low-production item (like a boat, a non-production-model car, or a house) new unless I can at least partially supervise construction or am working closely with the builder (not "on spec"). Unless something is mass produced, there are always kinks. Buying lightly used means that someone else has had 200-500 hours of use for someone else to identify and fix the kinks. The "bargain" you make with buying new is that there will be kinks, and you will have to deal with them (on the other hand, you get a new boat).

This is true on multi-million dollar yachts just as much as with our $300k FM boats, and it is true from reputable boat-builders and less reputable ones (the biggest difference between former and latter being how they respond to the issues). In another thread I related a story about a superyacht stuck at anchor because the wrong coolant hoses had been installed. That was not an isolated incident. Talk to any paid yacht crew, you will hear many stories. That's why superyacht owners pay their crews to spend hundreds of hours on shakedown.

Since we (FM owners) tend not to have the resources to hire someone else to do our shakedown, we are doing them ourselves. Personally, I would rather buy with 200-400 hours -- a prior owner has done my shakedown cruise, and I save money. You may have reasons for buying new, but understand the reality of it and go in with eyes open.

 

[Cutwater28GG]

Spot on FlyMeAway.

 

[srhawk454]

For me the biggest reason to go with FM boat not something else was the factory support and care. I have not seen anything even remotely close to what FM team does for their boat owners. Great to know the factory is always behind you and willing to help!