2020 29S Bilge Pump Questions and Issues

[Dcsqatar]

I am experiencing the following bilge pump issues, and would appreciate any help.

1. Both pumps are Rule automatic model 27sa, 1100 gpm. I believe these are standard in all new Rangers.

2. Aft pump works via the dash switch, but does not come on when the bilge is flooded, and it is not doing its 2.5 minute automatic check.

3. Forward bilge pump is doing its 2.5 min automatic check, but is not pumping. It hums but is not moving water. Hard to tell if its float switch is working since the pump is not pumping.

4. I tried my best to clean both pumps by removing from hull mount and cleaning surfaces with soap via a toothbrush. Impeller is free spinning in both pumps.

5. I checked both 7.5A fuses and they have continuity.

No manual was provided with my new boat, so I downloaded one. It does not speak to troubleshooting or maintenance, so I went to Youtube but could not find anything particularly helpful.

I also do not understand the pump wiring. I believe both pumps are directly powered via the thruster battery banks, but interestingly both pumps work from the dash switches even if the fuses are removed. Switches light up and pumps work (or try to in the case of the forward pump) even with no fuses installed.

Anyone have any ideas? Maybe I have to completely remove the pumps and check/thoroughly clean them, but it is a challenge given the aft pump's location under the shaft and the forward pump in the tight space in front of the engine and therefore I have been trying to avoid doing this.

 

[knotflying]

The pumps have two circuits. One circuit is for the automatic and has an in line fuse. If it is not working when the bilge fills with water. check the in line fuse. The wiring can be different on the boats as to were the fuse is. You need to find it. It could be blown and that is why it does not work. If it is blown, it blew for a reason. It could have over heated from not turning off and this can be from a failed sensor or the impeller having debris around it and inhibiting the pumping of water. The other circuit is the fused switch at the panel. This is the manual circuit to turn the pump on and bypasses the automatic circuit. If the other pump is humming it could be a bad impeller and it is working but not pumping water. Is the outlet hose clear and not clogged? Remove it and see if the pump is shooting out water. If so you have a clog in the discharge hose. If no water is coming out of the pump then it is a pump issue.

 

[Gypsy]

The answer to #2 is to just replace the bilge pump. I had the exact same issue. Ended up swapping out pumps and haven't had any problems since. You don't need to change out the pump base. The new one will snap in.

 

[Red Raven]

For the pump that runs without pumping it could be a stuck/clogged check valve. I have successfully cleared this a couple times by blowing some air back into the thru hull for the problem pump.

Curt

 

[Dcsqatar]

Thanks for the responses. I searched today for a fuse on the power wiring directly from the battery, and could not find one. The wires are very hard to trace, but there is no fuse within, say, 2 feet of the pump and no obvious fuse in any wires leaving the positive terminal on the thruster battery, which I understand from the Ranger manual, is the one that powers the bilge pumps. I did see a small (maybe 2 inch by 2 inch by 1 inch thick, mounted near the forward bilge pump and wired to it. There was no similar box at the aft pump.

Do any R29 owners know where the inline fuses (i.e., not those in the panel in the cave) are? Does anyone know what the black plastic box does?

 

[Hamster]

The in-line fuses should be closest to the battery and not at the pump. Mine are on House bank (R23). They were likely labeled originally, too. The automatic bilge pumps fail. 2 out of 3 failed within two years. Rule replaced them under warranty if you are the original owner.

 

[GZigmont]

Ditto what Gypsy said. The auto side of mine quit after a year. New pump started as soon as I touched the wires to make the connection.

 

[Ralf H]

Hi Dcsquatar,

Looks like your bilge pump question has been answered from previous post, however the black box hat you found is the sensor for the high water alarm. If you take a closer look at the alarm, you will see that there are two circles molded into the face of the box. If the alarm switch is set to "arm", you can test to see if the system is working by pressing two fingers from one hand (I use my index and middle fingers) into each one of the circles. This completes the circuit and should sound the alarm at the dash. Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Ralf

 

[JDubya]

There's certainly lots of bilge pump threads in the forums, I found 4 pages worth after searching. Replying here instead of starting something new, this one seemed to be the closest to my issue.

I have a used 2021 Cutwater C-30S. Since I'm not the original owner, I don't think Rule is going to honor any warranties and send me a new pump.

I have a similar problem to many others who've posted about the Rule 27SA 1100 gph pumps. Here's what I've found:

- Forward bilge pump is working as designed, it cycles every 2.5 minutes, and the red light on the over-ride switch at the helm station flashes when this happens.

- The aft bilge pump is not cycling like the forward pump. It only works in over-ride, when the house battery breaker is shut, per design. When operated from the helm, it pumps water from the bilge with good flow. I fished around in the bilge and pulled out all the debris that I could find. I even ran a hose to the bilge and did a 5-minute flush of good clean water from the hose. There was good flow overboard the entire time, until I shut off the hose and the pump sucked down below its suction point.

- The 7.5A fuses in the thruster battery fuse block in the quarter berth are both good. In fact, when I put the fuse back into the block for the aft pump, I can hear it cycle once in a similar manner to the forward pump's auto-cycle. Even with the pump mostly submerged though, it didn't keep running after re-installing the fuse.

- I can't find an in-line fuse coming off my thruster battery. I actually don't see anything else wired directly to the thruster battery, but it's well up under the deck at that point and I need to get an inspection mirror to be certain. (If it weren't for the fact that the forward pump is cycling, I would have thought this the most likely cause.) I traced the wiring back from the pump as far as I could, but it disappears behind a panel in the starboard storage compartment with no in-line fuse that far back. This is the panel that the charger/inverter is mounted on, and by the time you get back that far there's a ton of wiring in that location. It's easy to lose the bilge pump wire in the wire run that far back from the pump, but I don't see any in-line fuses at all anywhere in those wire runs.

- Checking the other batteries just in case the pumps aren't actually wired off the thruster battery per the owner's manual, the only in-line fuses I did find are 30A fuses on the wires labelled "solar" going into a house battery and the engine battery. That all makes sense if I understand how the solar panel is connected to house & engine correctly.

So that's my symptoms and troubleshooting efforts to date. Long story short is I need an expert on these particular Rule pumps to pay me a visit. :lol:

What I'm hoping with a forum post is that someone else with a C-30 can tell me where else I should be looking to find the fuse for the automatic cycling function, or someone recognizes this issue from past experience and has a good solution.

Other than that, it seems the TugNuts consensus is to go buy a new pump and re-wire it. I'm just concerned that if I can't check that in-line fuse then I'm likely to just buy a new pump and have the same issue after going to the trouble of disconnecting the old one and wiring in a new one.

 

[S. Todd]

On our 2021 R29S, which is trailered, I pull the two fuses every time I put it on the trailer to keep the bilge pumps from doing their auto cycle every 2.5 minutes. The fuses that operate the auto cycle are the two 7.5 amp fuses on the 24/7 fuse block behind the little door in the mid-cabin. The manual switches at the dash for those two bilge pumps are fused differently. Despite having only been fused and operational for 10 or twelve weeks over two years, when I was winterizing a few weeks ago our aft bilge pump failed. It stopped doing its 2.5 minute test. When I first put in the fuse it would run for about one second and then stop and not come back on and never do the 2.5 minute test for water. I installed a new pump and it works just fine. I think the engineering behind these pumps may have something to be desired because they seem to have a very limited life. Removal was possible by pressing the two blue tabs on the retaining ring mounted to the keel (but it would have been lots easier if my arm was 6 inches longer and no fatter). A new pump was just over $100 but is a spare part that I consider essential to carry.

 

[JDubya]

I’m certain after more study that the 7.5As in the q-berth fuse block are “inline” from thruster battery to the auto cycle feature of the bilge pumps (footnote is page 11 of owner’s manual). Got a new pump on order, I’ll be replacing the aft one this weekend.

 

[Dcsqatar]

I started this post over a year ago, and probably should have provided an update. I determined that the auto-check feature of my pump had failed. I spoke to Rule who noted that this had been a problem and they sent me a new pump at no cost. Not sure what the warranty was, but my boat was slightly over 2 years old at the time and the pump was therefore certainly 2+ years old.