26 Cutwater engine ventilation

[BB marine]

I had the pleasure of meeting another Cutwater owner on our 1st Loop segment . He noticed my engine vent screen came loose from the stainless frame work and stated his was in the same condition.The screen was pulled away from the Frame work the day we took delivery and the dealer made an attempt to repair it with no success. It's on my todo list. I stated I will repair it when I pull the air boxes off to find a water leak that I have on the starboard side. I thought that the water may be coming in around the air inlets that vent the engine compartment. My plan was to fix the water leak and possibly increase the inlet size and attach vent hoses to them to direct more air flow to the compartment.. After this conversation I received an email saying the vents that you thought are venting your engine compartment are just for looks !

1) Is this a true statement ?
2) If so where and how does the engine compartment get vented for fresh cool air for an efficient running Turbo Charged Diesel engine , heat reduction and odor?
3) If it is vented in the cockpit somewhere, how is it vented with a full cockpit enclosure? And will it get enough air for the air induction for the engine, cool the compartment and vent odors, (CO) and other Gases or vapors that may be present.

Issues that I have encountered mostly while doing the trip because of extended hours of cruising.
1) Engine compartment temperature extremely warm. My engine temperature maintained a running temp of 180 degrees with average days of 8 to 10 hours run time. I feel that with an engine running at this temperature and all the sound deadening insulation the compartment seemed to be close to that temperature.
2) All the engine compartment insulation started coming loose and some of it fell off .
3) I noticed waste tank orders in the engine compartment and cockpit storage compartments when I opened the hatches.
4) The bilge area under the engine/reverse gear, at the end of the day would be dry, It has always had a small amount of water presumably from the shaft packing. The heat I believe evaporated the water.

I'm not complaining about these issues or the boat. Our Cutwater performed flawlessly on our trip. We purchased this boat to do extended cruising like many others have. I realize that some alterations may be needed . I have time to address this vent issue if I need to.Many Cutwaters/Tugs do not have enclosures. Then there are many that do. What is the air reduction with the enclosure ? What are the side vents for? If they do vent the compartment can the size be increased? If they're not used is there a reason why? Thank you for any information that you can provide.
Brian Brown
26 Cutwater
PORT-A-GEE

 

[Kevin Lamont]

I had the pleasure of meeting another Cutwater owner on our 1st Loop segment . He noticed my engine vent screen came loose from the stainless frame work and stated his was in the same condition.The screen was pulled away from the Frame work the day we took delivery and the dealer made an attempt to repair it with no success. It's on my todo list. I stated I will repair it when I pull the air boxes off to find a water leak that I have on the starboard side. I thought that the water may be coming in around the air inlets that vent the engine compartment. My plan was to fix the water leak and possibly increase the inlet size and attach vent hoses to them to direct more air flow to the compartment.. After this conversation I received an email saying the vents that you thought are venting your engine compartment are just for looks !

1) Is this a true statement ?
2) If so where and how does the engine compartment get vented for fresh cool air for an efficient running Turbo Charged Diesel engine , heat reduction and odor?
3) If it is vented in the cockpit somewhere, how is it vented with a full cockpit enclosure? And will it get enough air for the air induction for the engine, cool the compartment and vent odors, (CO) and other Gases or vapors that may be present.

Issues that I have encountered mostly while doing the trip because of extended hours of cruising.
1) Engine compartment temperature extremely warm. My engine temperature maintained a running temp of 180 degrees with average days of 8 to 10 hours run time. I feel that with an engine running at this temperature and all the sound deadening insulation the compartment seemed to be close to that temperature.
2) All the engine compartment insulation started coming loose and some of it fell off .
3) I noticed waste tank orders in the engine compartment and cockpit storage compartments when I opened the hatches.
4) The bilge area under the engine/reverse gear, at the end of the day would be dry, It has always had a small amount of water presumably from the shaft packing. The heat I believe evaporated the water.

I'm not complaining about these issues or the boat. Our Cutwater performed flawlessly on our trip. We purchased this boat to do extended cruising like many others have. I realize that some alterations may be needed . I have time to address this vent issue if I need to.Many Cutwaters/Tugs do not have enclosures. Then there are many that do. What is the air reduction with the enclosure ? What are the side vents for? If they do vent the compartment can the size be increased? If they're not used is there a reason why? Thank you for any information that you can provide.
Brian Brown
26 Cutwater
PORT-A-GEE

Brian,

The vents on the side do allow air to flow into the engine area, however they dont have any sort of ducting to direct air directly to the intake of the engine, they simply allow air to flow into the engine compartment for fresh air and air flow. There are no bilge blowers on boats with diesel engines but you could install 1-2 blowers to pump air out if you are worried about temps inside the engine compartment, from my knowledge we havent had any issues with compartment temps but understand after 8-10hrs of run time it can get pretty warm in there. If the insulation is falling down there should be screws with fender washers that hold it in place, if not then I would add some screws and fender washers to hold it in place to prevent it falling off and causing issues. With the holding tank odors we recommend you pump out every chance you get and use some sort of tank cleaner to prevent build up and smell, this can be purchased at any marine parts store or even at the marina you keep the boat at, it will help with the smell. Let me know if you have anymore questions that I can help you with.

Thank you

 

[BB marine]

Thank you for the response. I'm happy to hear the side vents are working vents. I will look into increasing the air flow to cool the compartment down. Diesels run more efficiently with cool air induction. There are screws holding the engine hatch insulation on but the of rest is just glued. The heat must have softened the glue and most of the insulation fell off the bulkheads and compartment hatch covers. I will try to remove the old glue from insulation, bulk heads and hatch covers. I will use a 3m contact cement to reattach. The waste tank has always had Odorlos in the tank (delivery date May 2016) and pump outs are normally done at the end of weekends. Our home port has free pump outs. While cruising we made it a point to pump out when in marinas so no more then 4 days without a pump out. I did find a a access cover on the top of the tank was loose and possibly venting waste tank gases in the compartment. After tightening we still had an odor after a day of running. If I opened all the engine hatch and compartment hatches, which I started to at the end of each day to cool the compartment down and get some fresh air in the compartment.It was odorless in the morning but back at the end of a day of running.. I will look into better ventilation to the compartment over the winter. Once again thank you for your response.
Brian Brown
26 Cutwater
PORT-A-GEE

 

[baz]

...snip...After this conversation I received an email saying the vents that you thought are venting your engine compartment are just for looks !

...snip...
Brian Brown
26 Cutwater
PORT-A-GEE

Who was the Email from ? Was it from an official Ranger Tug person ?

 

[MartyC]

I do not have holes for venting in the vent box on my 2016 Cutwater 28. I confirmed this by pulling my microwave and inspecting the inboard side of the vent box. The aft part of the box can be also be inspected in the locker under the cockpit cooler.

Plus, Ivan (with Cutwater) confirmed that the vents 'are for looks', and that there is ventilation 'all around the cockpit'.

I admit that it bothers me to have fake vents on my boat. But, I also admit that however it is vented, seems to work on my my boat. I am more concerned with the Nextgen generator working efficiently when the genset blower sucks in hot air into the genset housing from the engine compartment and exhausts it in the lower locker under the cockpit cooler. I plan to add a 3" vent on the front side for fresh cool air to cool the generator and move the exhaust air out of the locker. My understanding is that the genset engine, being water cooled, is no problem in a hot engine compartment. But the generator is air cooled and needs cooler intake air than a hot engine box can provide to run efficiently.

 

[BB marine]

The difference between your boat and mine is larger cockpit and you don't have a aft enclosure. If its vented in the cockpit my enclosure could be an issue. Hopefully Cutwater can give a better explanation of the Ventilation. Two different answers same manufacturer.
Brian Brown
26 Cutwater
PORT-A-GEE

 

[Kevin Lamont]

The difference between your boat and mine is larger cockpit and you don't have a aft enclosure. If its vented in the cockpit my enclosure could be an issue. Hopefully Cutwater can give a better explanation of the Ventilation. Two different answers same manufacturer.
Brian Brown
26 Cutwater
PORT-A-GEE

After looking into this more the vents on the side of the boat are for looks, sorry for the confusion as I thought it being a Luxury Edition it had the same vents we put on the 24's which do have vents for the generator. With this I would still look into adding a blower or two that draws air out of the engine compartment. I know we have recently been working on evacuating hot air via blowers on all of our models with generators to prevent the hot air build up.

As far as the holding tank smell, I would check all connections as if you found one there might be another loose, maybe a hose clamp? Let me know what you find and I can check our black tank while its out of the boat to see if there is a fitting or plug that you might not see that could be creating the problem. Also, keep in mind as we run the boat and everything heats up it also expands and that could be why you smell it after running and not in the morning when everything is cold. You might want to try and tighten things once its warm rather when it is cold so it is as tight as it can get when warm.

Thank you,

 

[BB marine]

Thank you Kevin for the response back. I pulled a panel on the port and starboard side in the MidCabin to look up to see if it is feasible to use the vent boxes to vent the compartment. They are not usable. just for looks. I would be afraid of water leaks. I would be interested in how the factory is installing ventilation blowers on the Generator installed models. I would like to do this on my Cutwater.If you could forward any of the information I would appreciate it.
Brian Brown
26 Cutwater
PORT-A-GEE

 

[Kevin Lamont]

Thank you Kevin for the response back. I pulled a panel on the port and starboard side in the MidCabin to look up to see if it is feasible to use the vent boxes to vent the compartment. They are not usable. just for looks. I would be afraid of water leaks. I would be interested in how the factory is installing ventilation blowers on the Generator installed models. I would like to do this on my Cutwater.If you could forward any of the information I would appreciate it.
Brian Brown
26 Cutwater
PORT-A-GEE

Brian,

What year is the boat? When we started using NextGen generators we were not installing any type of blower but we had one fail due to overheat and we then started installing a inline blower that removes heat that turns on when the generator is started. You can tell by looking at the top of the generator, there will be a black vent hose on top that then runs to a blower and from there blows the hot air out under the cooler on the port side. If you can email it would be best so I can respond quicker, my email is in my signature. Let me know what you find as I believe we have kits for these so you can install or have installed.

Thank you,

 

[BB marine]

This is an update from my first post about C26 engine compartment ventilation. When I originally posted this topic I was just scratching the surface. I didn't understand the ventilation system installed where it was and how it was removing the warm air from the compartment. All I knew was the compartment would get extremely warm when cruising in warmer water for extended periods of time. I purchased this boat to do extended cruising.

When I purchased the boat I noticed the port and starboard vents thinking these should be adequate for the D3 engine. I never gave ventilation another thought. It is a diesel, no worries about a blower. The exterior size of the vents are proposal to the boat. Its new, quality built, with a lot of innovated concepts. I didn't realize the vents were for looks and had no value for cooling or combustion of the engine.

Our first segment of the Loop started and the first day was a 60 mile run on Lake Michigan. We then started down the Illinois river. The water temperatures 15F warmer and ambient air was about the same increase. The first thing I noticed at the end of our cruising day during my engine inspections was the bilge was completely dry. I never noticed that before. My concern was no water flow to the packing. I also thought it seemed much warmer then usual and there was a stale odor in the compartment. I posted on TugNuts about the packing. Mike Rizzo posted use a IR gun and check the temperature of the water and compare it to the temperature of the gland. If there is an issue with the packing I should see elevated temperatures at the gland. I did this the following day after cruising for a few hours and noticed very little difference between the packing and water temperature and saw a drip at the packing. At the same time I checked the temperature of my waste tank with the IR gun it was 140 F. This was when I realized how warm the compartment was getting. The water in the bilge was evaporating the stale odor was from the waste tank. I later found an o-ring damaged on the access port cover on the top of the tank and it was venting off waste odor when the tank was warm.

Sorry for the long history of the issue!

Where I'm at today. I have installed temperature sensors in the compartment. I have recorded data. I have spoke to several Volvo Technicians that I have presented the data. I have emailed representatives at NMMA and presented my data. I am now working with the Consumer Protection at BoatUS. The first response that I get from them is what is Fluid Motion saying about the issue. I respond by quoting Andrew " I talked to Volvo. They said they would prefer the engines to be as cool as they can but didn’t give an exact temp rating. I specifically asked the question and it seems like a pretty loose guideline. I also asked about longevity and they said doubtful that the temperature where you are running will cause any problems. Our engine rooms on every boat built is at least what you are seeing". The response I get back from technicians, NMMA and BoatUS is, there are specific numbers with both ABYC and Volvo Penta stating exact maximum values. These numbers are consistent with all marine diesel engine manufactures and also marine electronic manufactures and these values are a marine standard which is followed by any boat NMMA certified.

Is it just my Boat that has the issue of warm compartment temperatures? Thats what I'm being told. No other C26 owner has ever had an issue with elevated compartment temperatures at the engine intake. I received a 2013 Sea trial of a C26 when Fluid motion changed over to Volvo. This C26 Sea trial was with a 200 Hp D3 power plant. Performed by user: Mark Crandall ID:ZUS6870
Date of sea trial: 03/29/2013 12:53:27 Date of report: 03/30/2013 00:16:56, Water temperature 51 F, Ambient air temperature 55F, results showed, inlet air 116 F, Air temperature front 116 F, Air temperature top 116 F. this is a 61 F increase above ambient which is exactly what I am seeing in my boat. It was signed off , it was below 122F which is Volvos spec for maximum intake temperature. The one variable that is not met is there is a standard used for Ambient temperature 86F. The increase in compartment temperature shall not increase more then 36F if it does additional ventilation is needed. This is a specification from Volvo, ABYC, NMMA. All in agreement. All increases are to be added to 86 F ambient not the actual. This is the standard used in the marine industry. I am seeing the exact numbers as the Sea Trial a variance of 55 F to 60 F above ambient temperature . My conclusion it is not just my boat. It is my boat and at least the boat in the Sea trial.

What is the difference between the Yanmar installation and the Volvo installation? The Yanmar the original engine has the exhaust, Turbo and intake all in the open area of the compartment. Think of the air as being pulled in at the center of the compartment. The largest amount of cool air comes fro the transom area of the boat. So the intake air doesn't have to be pulled over a hot engine around the exhaust and turbo it is pulling in air from all sides of the compartment. This is a photo of the Yanmar installation.



The Volvo D3 is designed differently. The intake is in the front of the engine and the Turbo and exhaust are on the side of the engine. The intake is the furthest point from the transom where the ventilation air comes from. Intake air must pass over the engine 180 F + and past the exhaust and turbo. This increases the temperature of the air at the forward section of the compartment. This engine is mostly under the deck of the pilot house not in an open engine compartment. This is a picture of the Volvo installation in my C26.


Moving Forward. BoatUS has invited Fluid Motion to Sea Trial my boat along with a Volvo Representative. Fluid Motion did have an engineer from Volvo call me and we had a very good conversation about the issue. He did assure me that the engines internal components will not be compromised because there are systems in place that will alarm if the temperature gets to 176F. He did state Volvo wants the compartment as cool as possible to achieve rated HP. In my installation with the temperatures I am recording he stated I am loosing approx. 10% of my 220 Hp. the engine is producing 200 hp but using the fuel at 220 hp rate. The engine Hp is rated @ 76F there is a marginal loss as the intake air increases. 113 F is what Volvo considers good compartment temperature. As per the engineer I was talking to. The other compromise is the electronics. Volvo states 158 F is max. I have recorded temperatures of 158.8 and climbing but I have a procedure to open the deck hatch after I see temperatures of 150 F. or above after a few minutes of the hatch open the compartment starts to cool down.


What have I done over the winter? I store my boat at a marina that sells primarily all pleasure craft with Volvo power plants. They employ Volvo diesel technicians.I have worked with them and come up with more added ventilation. I provided the labor with their input. They stressed have passive suction air close to the engine intake and power ventilation opposite side of compartment. I have posted pictures of the ventilation additions. It is difficult to add good dry ventilation to a boat that is assembled and keep it out of sight. I feel confident that these additions should resolve the intake temperature issue and keep the compartment temperature closer to the recommended standards.

I am posting this not as a complaint but as information. I stumbled on this issue 2 years ago. I noticed something different, and continued to look into it. The elevated temperatures have not left me stranded, stopped me from using the boat, and to the best of my knowledge have caused no damage. I like to be proactive not reactive.

 

[Cutwater28GG]

Thanks for the update Brian. As always very thorough.

 

[BB marine]

3 sea trials this year are proofing success to finally have Compartment temperatures within Volvo Penta's specifications. Also meeting ABYC specifications. I added additional air directly to the area where the air intake and turbo are located under the pilot house deck. This was the warmest portion of the compartment and the most important to keep cool to maintain proper performance of the small displacement high rpm turbo diesel . The compartment has always run 60 F above ambient after approx 2 hour run time. Volvo and ABYC both state no higher then 30 F above ambient with a max of 120 F and recommend power ventilation if this can not be met. My Data was consistent with Cutwater factory D3 Volvo Sea trial. The intake and turbo portion of the engine is stuffed under the deck in a area that gets extremely warm from the exhaust and turbo and the closest place for it to get air for cooling is the gap across the transom about 8' away.

From the 3 sea trials I have data showing a drop to compartment temperatures by 26 F comparing data from last year.

Last year 55 F water temperature, 65 F ambient air temperature, temperature in compartment at intake 127 F, 62 F over ambient

Fluid Motion/Volvo factory C26 sea trial 55 F water temperature, 51 F ambient air temperature, temperature at intake 116 F, 61 F over ambient

This year additional ventilation and power exhaust.

50 F water temperature, 63 F ambient air temperature, temperature at intake 101 F 38 F over ambient

55 F water temperature, 67 F ambient air temperature, temperature at intake 101 F 34 F over ambient

61 F water temperature, 71 F ambient air temperature, temperature at intake 103 F 32 F over ambient

My hope is that when temperatures get in the mid to high 80's I'm seeing temperatures no higher then 120 F instead of 160 F like I have in the past loosing performance and fuel economy.

The best part is when I slow down to 2000 rpm or lower it drops down to low 90's. Before it would climb higher. By the time I get to my slip I am seeing less then 20 F above ambient.

The additional ventilation I believe will help with below deck odors and help to reduce mildew. The compartments have much better ventilation maintaining cooler operation for the inverter and battery charger and all electronic components associated with the engine. I have one exhaust blower right above the engine alternator to assist it with cooling. I have shot it with the IR gun and registered 190F.


I replaced all the vent hoses to trident poly duct it is resilient to puncture and reduces flow restrictions. I installed two exhaust blowers totaling 350 cfm of air movement running to a 8" exhaust vent and the other running to a 5" exhaust vent. I also installed (2) 3" and (1) 4" vent
















I think I'm finished with this project, now on to the next one!

 

[Cutwater28GG]

Great install. thanks for sharing with the community.

couple of question.
I assume that Vetus vent stops water entering but allows air in/out? even though its high on the gunwhale could waves/washdown water strike the vent and enter?

Why not use a temperature sensor or ignition switch to turn on the fans rather than the switches? something less to remember to turn on/off?

 

[BB marine]

Great install. thanks for sharing with the community.

couple of question.
I assume that Vetus vent stops water entering but allows air in/out? even though its high on the gunwhale could waves/washdown water strike the vent and enter?

Why not use a temperature sensor or ignition switch to turn on the fans rather than the switches? something less to remember to turn on/off?

The Vetus Vents have 90 degree elbow that is adjustable 360 dregrees it has a seal that prevents leaking at the swivel. When I installed both the exterior hull and cockpit Vetus vents the elbow is set at a 40 degree up angle and the trident hose is inserted in the elbow and sealed in the Vetus vent with 5200 sealant and exterior sealed with ventilation tape (expensive duct tape). If I took a heavy wave to the beam that high I could get water ingestion. I do have that vent hose mounted to the forward blower and have a additional hose mounted to the blower and pitched to drain where forward bilge pump is located. I took the hose from the dock and sprayed directly in both cockpit and hull vent and had a few drops of water drain in the bilge from Cockpit vent nothing from outside vent. The other outside vent is built into the fake vent on the port side. (5 ) 1 1/2 stacks and that has a drain line that goes to the bilge.




I had three options for running the blowers, Manual, temp sensor, or activated by the relay for my water flow and exhaust alarm horn/light panel which would run the blowers any time engine start is activated. I chose manual for now. I have a digital read out of compartment temperature so that will be my reminder for now. I may in the future change it to manual/auto.

 

[BB marine]

After a half season of boating 2019 and finally experiencing warm ambient air temperatures I'm going to conclude that the added ventilation has resolved the higher than recommended engine compartment temperatures in the C26 powered with a D3 200hp or 220 hp. I now can run at 2250rpm 7.5 kts engine temperature 176 F and warmest portion of the compartment registers 115 F (in front of engine air filter) with outside ambient of 83 F. Last year 2250 RPM engine speed and relative ambient temperature, compartment temperature 148 F. At 3450 rpm 13 kts engine temperature 186 F, compartment temperature rises to 125.5F and stays there. Last year 3450 rpm, Low 80's ambient, engine compartment warmest portion (in front of the engine air filter) 158.8 and climbing. I would open the deck hatch to cool down the compartment.

The only Fluid Motion representative that indicated I should add additional blowers and ventilation was Kevin Lamont ,

After looking into this more the vents on the side of the boat are for looks, sorry for the confusion as I thought it being a Luxury Edition it had the same vents we put on the 24's which do have vents for the generator. With this I would still look into adding a blower or two that draws air out of the engine compartment. I know we have recently been working on evacuating hot air via blowers on all of our models with generators to prevent the hot air build up.

Other's from from Fluid motion have stated "Our engine rooms on every boat built is at least what you are seeing." Really!

I contacted Boat US for a non Biased opinion. The BoatUS consumer advocate response was " We think your case may be a good, what we call BetterBOAT case. It involves a boat that is new, under warranty and NMMA-certified. Your boat meets this criteria. So if you can still be patient with us, we will get back to you about helping. At the very least we will write a letter to the company on your behalf."

The NMMA contacted John Livingston and he responded with.
"they have sold hundreds of these boats and do not
have people complaining about this issue.

BoatUS responded with a request to have a Fluid Motion Rep and a Volvo Rep. do a sea trial on my boat. The response I received back from Boat US was.

Apparently, John Livingston is sticking to his position that they have fulfilled Volvo's requirements. The NMMA rep does not have answers to whether Fluid Motion is living up to ABYC's standards (which I asked him about) and say they have no way to enforce it. My guess (and this is only MY guess) is that if they heard from dozens and dozens of boat owners with the same complaint they may be willing to confront the manufacturer, but not with one complaint.

I have contacted Volvo and the response given is you need to work with the boat manufacture. Our manufactured power plant is in their boat and they are given our guidelines for installation.


This was sent to the Volvo dealer that was working with me.

Two main conditions must be met:

1. The engine must receive enough air (oxygen) for combustion of the fuel.

2. The engine room must be ventilated, so that the temperature can be kept down to an acceptable level.

Ventilation is also important to keep the engine’s electrical equipment and fuel system at a low temperature, and to ensure general cooling of the engine.

NOTE! All valid safety regulations and legal require- ments for each country must be followed. Each clas- sification society has its own regulations that must be followed when required.

The temperature of the inlet air at the air filters must not be higher than +25°C (77°F) for full power output. During sea trials the air temperature in the air filter should not exceed 20°C (36° F) above ambient temperature.

The temperature of the engine itself is rather high in some places. Certain separate electric components, such as charging regulators and relays, should there- fore be fitted on bulkheads or elsewhere where the temperature is relatively low.

The Fluid Motion original Sea trial of the C26 with a D3 200hp resulted in 61F above Ambient. "John Livingston is sticking to his position that they have fulfilled Volvo's requirements".

I am happy I resolved the issue, I am disappointed in the customer service provided by Fluid Motion. The questions at hand is if Fluid Motion felt the temperatures were not as high as I have posted from data collected.Why would they not want to Sea trial my boat with a Volvo Rep present? Why do they build inboard powered diesels boats without an intake and exhaust ventilation system? Why would a manufacture's customer service respond with "all our boats are at least that don't worry about it".

In my quest for an answer " Is no ventilation system installed normal for diesel powered power boats". I have only found one power boat manufacturer that follows this method. Fluid Motion. There may be some out there but I haven't found one and believe me I looked.

If you have a engine running in a insulated compartment and it is operating at temperatures averaging 180 F. The designed way warm compartment air escapes is through the engines induction. Is this a well engineered concept? If it is I would like to hear the explanation. So far I haven't heard it. The only response I received is don't worry about it no one else is. I fixed it so I don't have to worry about it and neither will the next owner of my boat.

At this point it's really hard to say how well it works when the oldest Ranger Tug is 11 years , and Cutwater is 8 years. The oldest Tug is considered new to most used boat purchasers. I wonder how many of these power plants will mechanically make 3000 hrs with this set up. How many of them are going to make 1500 hours without sending unit issues, electric fuel pump issues, ECM issues, relay issues, Alternator issues, and many other electrical issues do to higher than engine manufactures specifications for compartment temperatures. Time will tell. Rant over! If you read the complete post Thank you. If you didn't you are not interested or concerned about the issue and according to Fluid Motion the is the general consensus. That is completely understandable!

Final note: BoatUs is very good advocate. They helped me get the answers that I was looking for and stayed non-biased.

 

[ixlr8]

The NMMA rep does not have answers to whether Fluid Motion is living up to ABYC's standards (which I asked him about) and say they have no way to enforce it.

Glad to hear your efforts to cool your engine compartment are working and you are now meeting Volvo's specs.
I believe Fluid Motion claims their boats meet ABYC standards, I assure you my Ranger Tug does not meet ABYC standards.

 

[BB marine]

The NMMA rep does not have answers to whether Fluid Motion is living up to ABYC's standards (which I asked him about) and say they have no way to enforce it.

Glad to hear your efforts to cool your engine compartment are working and you are now meeting Volvo's specs.
I believe Fluid Motion claims their boats meet ABYC standards, I assure you my Ranger Tug does not meet ABYC standards.

I believe there are some questionable installs in electrical, ventilation, engine plumbing, fuel tank plumbing, and quality control with the build. Some may not meet ABYC standards but for there most part the build does. As a consumer the NMMA sticker and advertised NMMA certified build says when this boat leaves the factory a Certified marine surveyor SAMS and ABYC should be able to step on board the boat and it should pass without a blemish. Unfortunately this is not always the case. Production cost and profit margins sometimes dictate the ability to meet recommendations. As stated in my previous post NMMA can train and recommend that ABYC standards are followed but they can not enforce it. It is up to the manufacturer to do so. This is a quote from The BoatUS advocate

" They (ABYC and NMMA) have the discretion to do what they feel is necessary as it is their reputation and recommendations they publish. And, recommendations, is a key word. The ABYC standards that they publish are really recommendations or guidelines. The exceptions to that are where they intersect with Coast Guard requirements."

 

[Matty]

Glad to see the quote in your post. As I understand it there is no such thing as an ABYC certification.Someone can claim to be within ABYC standards and not implement every recommendation. That is because ABYC has basically two categories of standards. One when they use the word (Shall or must) and second one where they say "Should". As the quote notes above "shall or must" is used when there is a Coast Guard Standard. Therefore it must be followed. Should is a recommendation only.
Depends on how you interpret it but to me a builder would need to follow all "shall or must" to be in line with standards but would not have to follow all "shoulds" to be in line. As stated below "shoulds" are only recommendations.
I have not seen anything that says Fluid Motion has adopted all of the Must and Should standards but it could be out there somewhere I suppose.
Having said that it is possible there are design flaws such as you describe with the lack of ventiation. By the way - I saw a post that someone changed some of the water cooling system to increase water flow - I think it was Stuart @Shearwater to keep temp down. Not sure it is related but found it to be an interesting read. But then again--I have an outboard.

 

[BB marine]

As I understand it there is no such thing as an ABYC certification.Someone can claim to be within ABYC standards and not implement every recommendation.

You are correct in this statement, there isn't a ABYC Certification and a builder can claim compliance but not always meet compliance.

I have not seen anything that says Fluid Motion has adopted all of the Must and Should standards but it could be out there somewhere I suppose.

The only thing I have seen is that Fluid Motion advertises NMMA certified.
"All boats sold in the U.S. must meet U.S. Coast Guard minimum regulations. NMMA Certified boats must also meet the more comprehensive standards set by the American Boat & Yacht Council (ABYC), covering more systems and components than USCG regulations".
This previous quote from The NMMA.
The would Must is used. Manufacturers build a boat to ABYC and USCG standards under the guidance of the company's NMMA-trained Certification specialist. The key component to the certification is the honor system. The manufactures employee who is NMMA-trained Certified signs off that the boat is in compliance.
I'm not debating a subject of safety. I believe Fluid Motion builds boats that meet and exceed the USCG standards. I also believe Fluid Motion meets many of the standards set by ABYC but not all.

I saw a post that someone changed some of the water cooling system to increase water flow - I think it was Stuart @Shearwater to keep temp down.

Different system but both go hand and hand. A engine compartment that is marginally ventilated and a power plant that has a raw water intake smaller than the required specification can cause elevated engine temperatures which increase compartment temperatures. The raw water intake thru hull Yanmar and Volvo D3 is specified to be 1 1/4 inch ID Fluid motion uses 1" ID That is a 20% restriction in flow, Does it work? Marginally. My D3 temperature increases from 176F to 193F from 2000 RPM to 4000rpm. Why is that? Volvo either didn't design the engine cooling system properly or the raw water system is not getting enough water flow to pull the heat from the exchanger as designed . A good rule to follow is that the internal diameter of the engine cooling water intake must match the i.d. of the raw water intake to prevent restriction. Add a 20% obstruction to the 1" thru hull that should have 1 1/4" the engine possibly will over heat. Add a 20% obstruction to the required 1 1/4" thru hull no over heat! Does the 1" work yes marginally.

 

[boatbrain]

interesting article related to concerns addressed with this thread.

https://www.proboat.com/2015/06/venting-the-engineroom/

Venting the Engineroom
By Steve D'Antonio, Jun 17, 2015