Adding AIS to a R25/OB ?

[Mike and Sarah]

Hmmmm, I do have radar for my R25/OB. I will investigate the AIS phone app. Thanks.... still have time to make the various decisions here, and this is why I'm asking the questions. 🙂

Sorry Barry. Somewhere along the way I thought you said you weren’t getting radar.
On our 27 we used Marine traffic and OnCourse apps to send and receive ais.
Also check with Ivan at RT. I know he does some installs of AIS and victron on the side.

 

[FlyMeAway]

Hmmmm, I do have radar for my R25/OB. I will investigate the AIS phone app. Thanks.... still have time to make the various decisions here, and this is why I'm asking the questions. 🙂

OnCourse doesn't actually transmit AIS. It sends your location to Marine Traffic, but other boats with AIS will not be able to see you.

If you are considering this option, you might as well just get a Garmin AIS receiver built into your VHF (I wonder if Fluid Motion will consider this upgrade, as I think it's a drop-in if they are using a Garmin radio).

 

[FlyMeAway]

Barry. Here is a thought. Factory installed radar is $2280. Radar will give you better info than just AIS. Then get an ais app (free) for your phone and use that for ais. A week ago we made a trip around Fidelgo island and had bad fog. Radar was a must. We never would have left the dock if we didn’t have radar. Mike

Radar and AIS serve slightly different purposes.

Receiving AIS is only a nominal safety feature; radar and/or good lookout can replace and might actually be better. I sailed for years without AIS but with radar.

But, sending AIS is a huge safety feature as it lets other boats (and vessel traffic) see you, in weather or at night (or in broad daylight).

 

[SJI Sailor]

As for radar, I would certainly get that over AIS if that is the question. We've been surprised by fog closing in and radar is a crucial safety element.

As for AIS, the Garmin 800 installation is so easy I did it myself, which is saying something! Connect to power, put inline with the VHF antenna (thanks to built in splitter), and connect to NMEA.

There were two minor surprises. First, we did need the external GPS antenna -- but did NOT have to route it externally. It stays coiled up in the electronics cabinet and works 100%. YMMV and some folks don't need it. Second, to program the MMSI into the AIS required installing a simple program from Garmin and using a long USB A-to-A cable to connect laptop one time to the unit.

Overall it was quite easy, no holes, and has worked very reliably. BTW after any Garmin update, it needs to power off and back on. HTH!

 

[baz]

SJI Sailor: I agree it's a straight forward installation, BUT only if you have clear line of sight to where connections have to be made. The NMEA backbone on my previous R27/OB for example is not easy to access, as you have to be head down and coiled up in fwd section of the cave on starboard sider to get close to it, and even then need cameras on your finger tips.

I'm hoping on my R25/OB the NMEA backbone is clearly visible and easily accessed in the wiring cabinet behind the help console.

 

[srhawk454]

...sending AIS is a huge safety feature...

@FlyMeAway: did you install a159 mhz tuned or using the existing VHF antenna? If it is the stock antenna, how is its performance for AIS and VHF?

 

[Diatom]

I second SJI Sailor's radar comment. Have AIS & Garmin but hit my first serious fog bank today halfway across the Georgia Strait & all through Active Pass. Total white-out, a terrifying hour for a novice even WITH radar; without it I'd have turned back - it would be unconscionable and/or suicidal to continue blind. AIS is a great way to keep track of the freighters & ferries, but rocks (and half the fishing boats) don't have AIS. Reviewed windy.com fog page immediately afterwards: imprecise, understated. Next time I see that "Fog Advisory" link atop the EC weather page I'll know to click it.

/tmm

 

[FlyMeAway]

...sending AIS is a huge safety feature...

@FlyMeAway: did you install a159 mhz tuned or using the existing VHF antenna? If it is the stock antenna, how is its performance for AIS and VHF?

I used the stock antenna, but my R-31CB already comes with AIS 300 (receive). I don't know if that means a different antenna. Receiving we have pretty good AIS coverage, so I'm assuming other boats can see me (and when I've looked on Marine Traffic, I can almost always see my boat).

 

[FlyMeAway]

I second SJI Sailor's radar comment.

And I would third it. I cannot think of circumstances where I would prefer AIS to radar if I had to pick just one.

That said, the learning curve with radar is significantly steeper than AIS. If you're not going to spend time learning how to use your radar, AIS is more "idiot proof" to use -- on the other hand, if you're relying on AIS for what you would use radar for, you might just be an idiot 😀

 

[SJI Sailor]

Agreed with Baz that our AIS install was "easy" due to the proximity of everything in the C30 electronics cabinet, which has radio, NMEA backbone, and space for the unit and antenna all at hand. May differ on other models.

As for the broadcast antenna, we share the VHF antenna using the Garmin 800's AIS splitter. That means AIS is sending and receiving in parallel with the VHF on the same antenna. Although I have read complaints about such setups, in 2+ years I have not noticed anything negative at all. For our modest VHF usage, it appears to have no effect in practice.

 

[Robvic]

I added the Vesper Cortex to our R25OB last weekend. I installed it below the 'step' to the left of the cabin door (lots of space for the wifi antenna). This puts it close to the 24/7 fuse block and next to the Garmin Reactor 40 computer for easy NEMA 2k connection. The only difficult part was running the wire to the GPS antenna which I mounted on the rail near the VHF antenna. The wire runs up beside the starboard porthole, above the wooden trim towards the aft cabin and then pops out the roof. (hint, remove the screws from the lower wooden trim so the porthole trim comes out easier). An afterthought, the GPS antenna might work just fine under the step through the fibreglass and save all the hassle of removing trim, fishing wires. Once the VHF antenna was disconnected from the SH radio, it was easy to route aft to the Cortex without adding an extension to the cable.

The Garmin chart plotter picked up the AIS signal right away.
The handheld is wired to the same circuit as the original SH radio, just changed the fuse capacity.

 

[aintmissb]

Going back a few posts to Diatom in the fog. Surely your GPS chartplotter can see the rocks for you even in the fog? That leaves the fishing boats I guess.

 

[Diatom]

aintmissb - sure, plotter shows the rocks, my point is that AIS is limited in class of targets and contingent upon being turned on, leaving radar (and knowledge of how to use it) essential. In fact I was using multiple redundant devices (compass, plotter/AIS, iPhone/iPad) to assuage total disorientation - I had the conviction that I was continuously turning to port and started suspecting my instruments. Fighting off panicked thoughts - "does fog blind GPS?", "have I overdone noise filtering on radar?", "what happens if I stray into US waters, is that "entry"? - left me trusting only the swells and compass to orient myself, then radar once it displayed familiar landfall. At one point in the strait - nothing showing on radar/AIS for miles around - I encountered a large freighter/ferry wake, didn't inspire confidence. Had the impression that the log-riding seagulls drifting into occasional view were giving me that Far Side look... "Say, what's a mountain goat doing up here in a cloud bank?"

Never appreciated how dependent I am upon "VFR" to orient/navigate. Wonder if others have experienced that circularity delusion?

/tmm

 

[GypsyMoth]

I encountered a large freighter/ferry wake, didn't inspire confidence. Had the impression that the log-riding seagulls drifting into occasional view were giving me that Far Side look... "Say, what's a mountain goat doing up here in a cloud bank?"
/tmm

Years ago we were sailing at night from San Francisco Bay to Santa Cruz on my father's boat. We were happy to see the lights from the town of Davenport as we went by- until 'Davenport' pulled outside of us, and then passed us. We did have a radar reflector up on the mast as well as the navigation lights...

Modern electronics are convenient!

 

[baz]

I have kept my Tri-lens radar reflector from one boat to the next.
https://www.practical-sailor.com/marine-electronics/tri-lens-radar-reflector

Expensive.... and not readily available these days. It's heavy and needs to be secured without any fear it would fall off. 😱

 

[FlyMeAway]

Never appreciated how dependent I am upon "VFR" to orient/navigate. Wonder if others have experienced that circularity delusion?

One approach (which I've heard echoed by aviators) is "don't look up."

The times I've been stuck in heavy, low visibility fog (sometimes less than 1/8th of a mile) I've always kept my eyes down and glued to the instruments while I have 1-3 spotters acting as lookouts and describing anything they see that isn't fog. It has been cool, at times, to say "you should be seeing a small powerboat at 11 o'clock" and then have it appear out of the mist.

The other good thing about this approach is that you can practice it in fair weather. Turn on your instruments, put your head down, and have lookouts for emergencies or errors. You can ready yourself for solo journeys this way too.

 

[SJI Sailor]

+1 to instrument practice. Also -- if in actual fog -- remember that in addition to nav lights, sound signals are required every 2 minutes (a 5 second blast of the horn, if underway).

 

[srhawk454]

...
The other good thing about this approach is that you can practice it in fair weather. Turn on your instruments, put your head down, and have lookouts for emergencies or errors. You can ready yourself for solo journeys this way too.

Echo that, this skill is absolutely imperative to gain.

 

[Diatom]

Thanks SJS Sailor & srhawk454 for sage advice!
/tmm

 

[mlanger]

“…Commercial boaters, or those who operate U.S.-flagged vessels outside U.S. waters, must file Forms 159 and 605 with the U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to obtain an MMSI.”

The FCC path is the better way to go imo. But I’m only 17 miles from Canadian waters.

Search feature for the win! This is exactly the info I was looking for this morning. So glad I didn’t have to bug everyone by asking. Thanks!