Air Conditioning / Generator Retrofit

[CaspersCruiser]

I’m starting a new thread to take this discussion away from a thread where the original poster was commenting about how many Ranger Tugs he’s seen in the Florida Keys cruising the Great Loop.

A post to that thread mentioned having a generator and air conditioning retrofitted to a R25SC NW Editon in order to be comfortable on a Great Loop cruise. The poster mentioned having the work done in Florida.

If you decide to retrofit your R25SC with air in Florida, I had this organization in Tarpon Springs work on the air in my 2012 R27 in spring 2018. Their bread and butter is large yachts, but they did not balk at working on my little boat. They diagnosed and fixed my problem at a reasonable cost. Understand that my experience is six years old, but it’s a place to start. There are several boat yards in the area. Maybe the generator install could be coordinated.

https://abycinc.org/members/?id=17074179

If others have retrofitted air conditioning or a generator to their boats, this thread would be a good place to tell about your experience so that future Tugnutters may see it in a search.

 

[gsc3]

This year I had the Webasto AC unit in our 2016 Cutwater 24 replaced. This was done by Wendell Bangs Inc., who is associated with Peterson Marine Inc., which is in Oldmar, FL, near Clearwater. Wendell Bangs is in Holmes Beach, FL, near Sarasota. Wendell did excellent work. The new AC works great. I am happy to recommend him!

Slade Cargill, Longboat Key, FL, "Sojourner" 2016 Cutwater 24

 

[DenverReds]

Thx Caspers Cruiser - I’m still not sure about needing AC (and accompanying Mase generator). I like the idea of checking into a hotel those nights it’s too warm. Much less expensive than an AC & Generator retrofit. Not sure that approach is practical, however, for spontaneous decision making. I’ll call the outfit in Fla you mention - to see what they recommend.

 

[BB marine]

Thx Caspers Cruiser - I’m still not sure about needing AC (and accompanying Mase generator). I like the idea of checking into a hotel those nights it’s too warm. Much less expensive than an AC & Generator retrofit. Not sure that approach is practical, however, for spontaneous decision making. I’ll call the outfit in Fla you mention - to see what they recommend.

Last year we cruised off and on with a buddy boat R27SC Tug. The couple were from PNW and had a 27 Ranger Tug. They trailered to Chicago. The Ranger was a NW Edition. No generator, No air. They had a cockpit Bimini, 400 watt solar, good batteries and fans.

If you travel the Loop in a "traditional time frame". Meaning Midwest river system September/October/November, The Panhandle the second half of November and first part of December,January thru March the Florida peninsula. April/ May US Atlantic South East coast heading north. New York City to northern New York, Canada, Great Lakes June/July/ August. The use of air-conditioning can be limited. We have did 1/3 of the Loop in a C26 Cutwater. We did the complete Loop in a 34' Mainship. Neither boat had a generator. We did have a 2200W Honda onboard for morning cooking. The Cutwater had no solar. The Mainship had 600 watt solar which is a game changer. We like to anchor! We anchored when cruising the Panhandle 3 nights. We needed heat not cool air. When we did our Gulf crossing we did the Big Bend, Steinhatchee - Cedar Key - Anclote Key. Anchored at Cedar key and Anclote Key with hatches open and a cool breeze coming in. One night at Anclote Key it was cool enough that a little heat would have been nice. We did not use Marine down the west side of Florida until Ft Myer. Karl the 27 tug stayed at the same marina we did in Ft Myer. They didn't have air and they said they were comfortable with windows open and fans. Florida, January, February, and March will have a few days that Air would be nice during the day. It usually cools down at night. If you like to anchor you will not be running your generator all night. At least I would not advise doing that while you are sleeping. Honestly we used the reverse heat more than we did cool during our Loop trip. This is not to say having air is a bad thing. When we purchased our C26 new. I could not justify the cost of the Generator and installed a 2000 Watt inverter. I did get Marine air.

When I purchased the Mainship Pilot in 2021 for the Loop. I found a Bristol condition 20 year old boat that had everything we wanted, speed when needed, 12.4' beam with 12" TO 16" wide walk around decks, A large pilot house, larger shower area, twin diesels, larger V-Berth, plenty of storage for extra batteries and large pilot house roof to put 600Watt solar panels. The big let down was no generator. I priced and actually ordered a NexGen 5K Generator. It was 9300.00 with all accessories to install. I was going to do the install myself. I thought about the cost and cancelled the order. I installed a 3000 W inverter, installed 600 AH of batteries and installed the 600 Watt inverter. I did the install myself for $3000.00 . I purchased a cover for my 2200 W Honda generator and stored it under my cockpit Gunnel. I had enough power from the inverter to run the Air unit and enough battery while the engines and solar were producing charge amps to run the Hot water tank, stove, air, coffee any thing on board. Obviously using strict power management.

I can count on one hand using two fingers the times we used the air unit while underway. I put less than 30 hours on the Honda Generator Complete Loop. The solar was the game changer. Good fans kept us comfortable when we were on the hook when it was warm. Hatches open with screens and slept comfortable. When a heat wave came in we would go to a marina and plug in. Use the air.

You can purchase a Webasto FCF Air Conditioning Unit with Reverse-Cycle Heat for 1800.00. If you are handy, install it yourself all parts needed for the install would cost about $500.00. If you don't want to tackle the project figure on about 2K for the install cost, about 4K. Install more solar panel and a three battery house bank. The advantage you have with the Volvo D3 is the large alternator output of 180 amps. Solar and alternator output along with a 3000W inverter will give you the ability to have air when cruising. I doubt you will find the need for this if you are north of Florida by April. This is a traditional time to head north.

Don't over think it! Fans, battery capacity, solar, and a cockpit shower with hot and cold water before bed. You will be comfortable!

 

[CaspersCruiser]

Thx Caspers Cruiser - I’m still not sure about needing AC (and accompanying Mase generator). I like the idea of checking into a hotel those nights it’s too warm. Much less expensive than an AC & Generator retrofit. Not sure that approach is practical, however, for spontaneous decision making. I’ll call the outfit in Fla you mention - to see what they recommend.

One can never go wrong following Brian Brown’s advice. I’ll give my take on a few issues.

Hotels are not always convenient to stops on the loop. My guess is 50/50. And many times if there are reasonably close accommodations at the time you need them, you’re there in high season. Demand is high and so are the rates. It does not take too many $200 a night hotel stays to add up to real money. On top of that you’re paying a transient slip rate for your unoccupied boat. If you follow the typical looper schedule, the only time you will not be cruising in high season is going down the rivers in the fall when you won’t need A/C.

Regarding having air conditioning on the boat, sometimes it’s not just the temperature that is excessive. In the evening when temperatures drop, there is a corresponding rise in humidity. Air conditioning knocks that down as well.

Regarding opening the hatches and using fans, that works great. Sometimes there is a nice breeze and one can lower or turn off the fans. However, open hatches attract bugs. A good breeze will mitigate the bug problem, but when the breeze fails you, very few hatch screens completely eliminate bug intrusion. I saw these hatch bug nets on a boat in Florida and ordered some for my R27 Classic. Their appearance is ungainly, but they WORK.

https://sogeman.com/product-category/hatch-screens/

Brian mentioned that if you were handy you could install air conditioning on your boat yourself. You have to understand that Brian, in an earlier life, was an EXPERT, highly skilled marine tech and grew up in a boating family. He’s not your average DIY wrench. Installing the hardware, plumbing it, powering it, and running the ducting to outlets that will have to be cut is a DIY job for someone with skills at the expert level.

 

[mfreeman_1998]

Hello All,
We did the Loop in '21-'22. As part of our preparations, I installed a MarineAire 16k BTU Air Conditioner in the cave on our 2012 R27 classic. I did not add a generator. This worked well for us as while underway the breeze cooled us adequately. It was when we stopped that we felt we needed the AC for both heat and humidity. Fortunately, this wasn't that often, but it was sure nice to have when we were uncomfortable. At those times, we stopped in a marina and powered the AC with shore power. Some nights we ran it all night. Slept like babies in air-conditioned comfort. The unit could also serve as a heater. Occasionally, while on shore power, we ran the heater as an alternative to our Webasto.

 

[DenverReds]

Hello All,
We did the Loop in '21-'22. As part of our preparations, I installed a MarineAire 16k BTU Air Conditioner in the cave on our 2012 R27 classic. I did not add a generator. This worked well for us as while underway the breeze cooled us adequately. It was when we stopped that we felt we needed the AC for both heat and humidity. Fortunately, this wasn't that often, but it was sure nice to have when we were uncomfortable. At those times, we stopped in a marina and powered the AC with shore power. Some nights we ran it all night. Slept like babies in air-conditioned comfort. The unit could also serve as a heater. Occasionally, while on shore power, we ran the heater as an alternative to our Webasto.

Thanks for the insights! I have a portable Honda 2200 generator onboard that I use on the hook while visiting Santa Cruz Island. I’ll check the power demand for the 16K BTU MarineAire - maybe my portable generator will work…it’s a bit noisy but it’s paid for!

 

[DenverReds]

Hello All,
We did the Loop in '21-'22. As part of our preparations, I installed a MarineAire 16k BTU Air Conditioner in the cave on our 2012 R27 classic. I did not add a generator. This worked well for us as while underway the breeze cooled us adequately. It was when we stopped that we felt we needed the AC for both heat and humidity. Fortunately, this wasn't that often, but it was sure nice to have when we were uncomfortable. At those times, we stopped in a marina and powered the AC with shore power. Some nights we ran it all night. Slept like babies in air-conditioned comfort. The unit could also serve as a heater. Occasionally, while on shore power, we ran the heater as an alternative to our Webasto.

Thanks for the insights! I have a portable Honda 2200 generator onboard that I use on the hook while visiting Santa Cruz Island. I’ll check the power demand for the 16K BTU MarineAire - maybe my portable generator will work…it’s a bit noisy but it’s paid for!

 

[DenverReds]

Last year we cruised off and on with a buddy boat R27SC Tug. The couple were from PNW and had a 27 Ranger Tug. They trailered to Chicago. The Ranger was a NW Edition. No generator, No air. They had a cockpit Bimini, 400 watt solar, good batteries and fans.

If you travel the Loop in a "traditional time frame". Meaning Midwest river system September/October/November, The Panhandle the second half of November and first part of December,January thru March the Florida peninsula. April/ May US Atlantic South East coast heading north. New York City to northern New York, Canada, Great Lakes June/July/ August. The use of air-conditioning can be limited. We have did 1/3 of the Loop in a C26 Cutwater. We did the complete Loop in a 34' Mainship. Neither boat had a generator. We did have a 2200W Honda onboard for morning cooking. The Cutwater had no solar. The Mainship had 600 watt solar which is a game changer. We like to anchor! We anchored when cruising the Panhandle 3 nights. We needed heat not cool air. When we did our Gulf crossing we did the Big Bend, Steinhatchee - Cedar Key - Anclote Key. Anchored at Cedar key and Anclote Key with hatches open and a cool breeze coming in. One night at Anclote Key it was cool enough that a little heat would have been nice. We did not use Marine down the west side of Florida until Ft Myer. Karl the 27 tug stayed at the same marina we did in Ft Myer. They didn't have air and they said they were comfortable with windows open and fans. Florida, January, February, and March will have a few days that Air would be nice during the day. It usually cools down at night. If you like to anchor you will not be running your generator all night. At least I would not advise doing that while you are sleeping. Honestly we used the reverse heat more than we did cool during our Loop trip. This is not to say having air is a bad thing. When we purchased our C26 new. I could not justify the cost of the Generator and installed a 2000 Watt inverter. I did get Marine air.

When I purchased the Mainship Pilot in 2021 for the Loop. I found a Bristol condition 20 year old boat that had everything we wanted, speed when needed, 12.4' beam with 12" TO 16" wide walk around decks, A large pilot house, larger shower area, twin diesels, larger V-Berth, plenty of storage for extra batteries and large pilot house roof to put 600Watt solar panels. The big let down was no generator. I priced and actually ordered a NexGen 5K Generator. It was 9300.00 with all accessories to install. I was going to do the install myself. I thought about the cost and cancelled the order. I installed a 3000 W inverter, installed 600 AH of batteries and installed the 600 Watt inverter. I did the install myself for $3000.00 . I purchased a cover for my 2200 W Honda generator and stored it under my cockpit Gunnel. I had enough power from the inverter to run the Air unit and enough battery while the engines and solar were producing charge amps to run the Hot water tank, stove, air, coffee any thing on board. Obviously using strict power management.

I can count on one hand using two fingers the times we used the air unit while underway. I put less than 30 hours on the Honda Generator Complete Loop. The solar was the game changer. Good fans kept us comfortable when we were on the hook when it was warm. Hatches open with screens and slept comfortable. When a heat wave came in we would go to a marina and plug in. Use the air.

You can purchase a Webasto FCF Air Conditioning Unit with Reverse-Cycle Heat for 1800.00. If you are handy, install it yourself all parts needed for the install would cost about $500.00. If you don't want to tackle the project figure on about 2K for the install cost, about 4K. Install more solar panel and a three battery house bank. The advantage you have with the Volvo D3 is the large alternator output of 180 amps. Solar and alternator output along with a 3000W inverter will give you the ability to have air when cruising. I doubt you will find the need for this if you are north of Florida by April. This is a traditional time to head north.

Don't over think it! Fans, battery capacity, solar, and a cockpit shower with hot and cold water before bed. You will be comfortable!

Thank you! A lot to think about in your reply - really appreciate the insights. I’ll be a bit behind the traditional Loop calendar with a planned departure of south east (Jacksonville/Savanah/Charleston) in May. This schedule might have me chasing the cooler weather…humidity is also an issue given I’m from the west where we’re less used to humidity.