all chain rode

D

daveme

Active member
Joined
Sep 9, 2019
Messages
36
Fluid Motion Model
R-23 (Outboard)
Hull Identification Number
fmlc3028K314
Vessel Name
Grace
I'd really like to switch to all chain rode, maybe 200' total. I figure that would be another 200 lb in the bow. Possibly even help the boat reach a plane? Has anyone made the shift? Any downsides?

Dave
 
All chain 200' is used by many boats owners but is that enough rode for the for the PNW? I've never boated there but plan to some day. I was told that additional rode is needed when cruising PNW. I have 150' of 3 strand and 50' of chain. This is more of a question than an answer to your question. To answer your question about getting the bow to come down I would recommend installing Bennett drop fins on your trim tabs. Using weight to bring the bow down is really counter productive to performance. I installed drop fins and many others Tugs and Cuts have with good results.viewtopic.php?f=24&t=9262&hilit=+drop+fin#p64047

I will be interested in what others say about 200' chain rode in PNW too.
 
With all chain rode you “can” get by with less scope and thus less rode. I think 200’ of chain rode would be sufficient in the PNW up to the Broughtons. North of there the anchorages can get more difficult and the tides larger (more than 25 ft tides). We had 280 ft of rode (80ft of chain and 200 of nylon) and used all of it several times and still could barely maintain a 3:1 scope in several locations.

I haven’t checked the added weight of 200’ of chain but when we added the extra 30 feet of chain, a spare prop, and rudder to the bow it did not reduce the bow rise. I think the added weight mostly just slows the boat down. When up to cruising speed on our boat the bow comes down to an acceptable level. In fact, I usually trim up just a hair to get optimum efficiency. Dropping the bow too low can also be problematic and even dangerous.

There also is the issue of the noise of an all chain rode. As the boat swings around the anchor and the chain drags on the bottom the noise is translated up to the boat. Makes it difficult to sleep.

With all chain a bridle is also recommended to reduce the shock load. The nylon rode provides natural shock absorption.

You also need to make sure you have the locker capacity for all chain rode.

Personally I would not recommend all chain. Certainly not to bring the bow down. As Brian says, trim tab improvements are a better choice for that. If you have the space for more rode I would use it to add more nylon to allow more scope. I like not having to bother with a bridle. If you can handle more weight on the bow add a bigger anchor instead. In my opinion the added weight of more anchor provides more benefit than than the added weight of more chain.

Curt
 
the boat design is not optimal to have that much weight in the bow.
i've also seen research that scope is far more important than all rode chain. in short scope anchorages of course all chain is best.

for any 50foot anchorage you are going to want 325 feet of scope available. once you take into account highwater and water to bow height.
you'll find that you are looking for water depths in the 30 foot range with the boats current setup.
 
daveme":93bcclio said:
I'd really like to switch to all chain rode, maybe 200' total. I figure that would be another 200 lb in the bow. Possibly even help the boat reach a plane? Has anyone made the shift? Any downsides?.
Click to expand...
If your reason for doing it is to add weight forward there are certainly easier/simpler and cheaper ways to accomplish that. We did make the switch to all chain on our R25 classic. Our main reason was to eliminate issues associated with the small anchor locker and more reliable recovery with the windlass without having to go onto the foredeck. In order to avoid adding weight to the bow we stepped down from 5/16 to 1/4 in chain.

Others have mentioned some of the downsides. For practical purposes the noise factor is the biggest issue IMO. Using a bridle to eliminate shock loading is only helpful in extreme situations of wind/current. During daily use under "normal" conditions the bridle doesn't buy you anything and is unnecessary complexity.
 
The articles by Peter Smith were a big factor in planning for my upcoming Alaska trip (thanks for recommending Chimo). In particular I'm worried about anchoring at Anan creek (bear viewing site) where the bottom topography is steep and holding is poor. As I understand it if increasing the scope is not an option then having a heavier anchor is better than adding chain (or all chain). As a result I've purchased a Rocna 15 (33 lb) which is about twice the weight of the stock anchor included with the R27OB. This anchor in no way fits on the existing windlass/roller so my plan is to keep the stock anchor attached when underway and then switch out the two when actually anchoring.
 
I should also mention that at Anan, the entire crew will be ashore, leaving the boat unattended which increased my anxiety about the anchor setup.
 
ive seen posts from other owners have upgraded the roller to handle the bigger anchor. worth doing a search.

dont forget to seize the shackle to the chain with Monel wire.
 
Maggie Anne":1awylwl5 said:
The articles by Peter Smith were a big factor in planning for my upcoming Alaska trip (thanks for recommending Chimo). In particular I'm worried about anchoring at Anan creek (bear viewing site) where the bottom topography is steep and holding is poor. As I understand it if increasing the scope is not an option then having a heavier anchor is better than adding chain (or all chain). As a result I've purchased a Rocna 15 (33 lb) which is about twice the weight of the stock anchor included with the R27OB. This anchor in no way fits on the existing windlass/roller so my plan is to keep the stock anchor attached when underway and then switch out the two when actually anchoring.
Click to expand...

Maggie Anne,

We went to Anan Creek last summer. The anchorage is definitely a challenge. Fortunately we were traveling with a larger boat with a larger fast tender. We chose to anchor several miles away in Fools Inlet. Even with that, there was no real safe place for the larger tender at Anan Creek and hauling it ashore was not an option. We anchored it to shore with a very long line to the high tide line. The tide rose more than ten feet (maybe 15!) while we were there and the tender was bouncing against the rocks when we returned.

I don’t think the bottom is that bad at Anan. The problem really is the exposure. It is really not a bay, cove, or harbor at all. Just the creek shoal on the channel. Plenty of sand from the creek to get a grip but if there is a blow it could be a problem. Most everyone leaves someone on the boat to man the tender and on anchor watch. We did meet a couple from France however who were traveling the world for the last 7 years on their 45 ft sailboat. They obviously are experts by now, and they left their boat anchored without a watch in the shoal with plenty of chop without a problem. So maybe a big anchor and a lot of scope is enough.

It is definitely worth the visit. Absolutely amazing bears. Just keep an eye on the weather if you leave the boat anchored there. If it is calm I think it would be no problem at all. With your 27OB you can likely puller lift your (lighter?) dinghy or kayak all the way up above the high tide line.

We have a Rochna 15 on our R 27 Classic. It fits just fine.

Feel free to PM me if you have further questions.

Curt
 
one thing not mentioned is the use of 8 plait rode. We have 30 feet of chain and 200 feet of 8 plait. We did the PNW as far as Desolation sound and did fine. Maybe 50 feet of chain with 250 feet of 8 plait would have given me a bit more comfort. The 8 plait lays flatter and is more pliable so you can fit more in the locker. It would be nice to have a bigger locker for the rode.
 
Our Bounty 257, a little heavier than the R27, carried 40' of 1/4" HT chain spliced to 300' 1/2" rope. Originally a Bruce, then a Rocna 10kg. We made sure the set was good (easy with the Rocna), and re-set if necessary, every time. Never a problem holding overnight in 18 summers cruising the Inside Passage. Anchoring typically in 25-50 feet. Occasional 60 or a bit more would be necessary. We used 3:1 scope in light winds, 4:1 or 5:1 if stronger winds. Rarely used the last 50-100' of rope.

I'd say a Rocna 10 or 15, 50' chain, and 250-300' rope would be plenty. We have all chain on our 37 Nordic Tug, but it's much larger and 2.5 x as heavy. And all chain requires a snubber or bridle.
 
Thanks everyone for your comments. The reason for my original question was not so much about the right total rode length needed for cruising or trade offs between rope and chain. My background is sailing and I have always preferred all chain in BC and Northwest waters. This is due to the shortened scope required, the superior durability and holding (dragging 100 feet of chain on the bottom sometimes nearly holds as well as an anchor) and the reassuring mechanical locking that happens in the gypsy as it grips chain verses rope. But I have been concerned about the weight in my CW bow, so I was hoping to find owners who had made the switch on a CW 30 or similar Ranger to get their opinion. Don't think anyone responding made the switch?
 
Knotflying,
We have a 10 kg anchor, 50 ft (15 meters) chain and 260 feet (80 meters) of 8 plait rode on our R25 Classic. The 8 plait definitely lays down flatter, seems to take much less room in the anchor locker and is easier to handle. The downsides for us are that 8 plait rode is slippery and doesn’t pull up as easily using the windlass as conventional rode - because it tends to slip in the windlass when under tension. It also seems to be wearing a bit fast.
 
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