ANOTHER "questions from a newb" thread!

Puddlejockey

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Hey there everyone:
I'm a new member posting for the first time; as well as a "not yet" Ranger boat owner!
Sorry in advance for the long post.
I need your help! I've done a tremendous amount of research online ( great forum btw), as well as talked to a few former and current trawler owners, but I'd love your input and thoughts on my great debate. I understand that much of what I'm asking about is subjective and hard to pin down- but what's the internet for, if not conjecture and opinions? 😀

Here's the skinny: I'm considering another boat, and I've clearly fallen victim to "tug love." . But our boating use/ environment is different enough that I can't get a handle on whether I'm even thinking in the right direction- and as we're based in central NC getting access to, and taking out, any of the Ranger Tugs in question is a big enough PITA that it requires some baseline decisions before we go down that road.
My lovely bride and first mate is a primary deciding factor- and her opinions seem to be wholly based on experience at the time, rather than formed in advance ( she can easily tell me we made the wrong choice- AFTER it's made...lol)

We're boating primary on Lake Norman, which is an inland Lake with some unique features. It's 34 miles long, only 1.2 nm wide at it's widest point- and has 522 statute miles of shoreline because of all it's "bays" and coves. Our lake has significantly more boat and moron traffic than it can safely support. It's a very popular "wakeboarding" lake, as well as a very convenient place for our local bank executives, Racing celebrities, and Car dealers to play " mines bigger than yours" . There are boats ranging from 20- 44 feet on this little lake. For that reason, Lake chop that's wholly wake driven can be an issue- as well as crowding in some narrower passages. 2-3' of lake chop isn't uncommon; and the occasional 4-5' wake does happen! I've seen 18 foot runabouts get swamped from taking a wake on the beam.
For that reason, we enjoy boating in the evenings during the week, as well as the "off season" when the lake is somewhat less crowded.

I have some freshwater boating experience, and grew up sailing the Great Lakes- but very little blue water boating experience other than day trips wherein I wasn't the captain. Our use will be 97% as a "day cruiser" on the Lake.
We had a Hunter 27 for awhile that I restored, and my wife LOVED that boat on our intermittent trips. I'm pretty sure what she enjoyed was the stability and sense of safety, along with the quiet joy of sailing. That was a full deep keeled boat with 3' of freeboard, and I picked her for her stability and ease of sailing. I sold her for those same reasons- and the fact that while I 'm surrounded by people who think they love to sail- I'm really surrounded by people who love to BE sailed. My frustrations with her ( the Hunter) was that under power with the 10hp Yanmar- we topped out at about 4 knots- and couldn't outrun the flies, nor get anywhere within 2 hours.
We've also had "go faster" planing hulled boats- which I enjoyed for the sake of err.....going faster...but my bride very much disliked for the lack of cabin to get out of the sun, lack of amenities, and the bounce of a full planing hull while on plane.
This led me to thinking about a trawler- which led to Ranger Tugs- which led to a video online of a 25 classic cruising up a river. I may never forgive whoever posted that video. 🙂
So- what we're looking for are those amenities and comfort ; that sense of safety and stability comparable to- or at least reminiscent of - a full keeled blow boat. As a "day cruiser" , I'd hate to pay a fortune for a larger cabin, etc that will almost never get used. Typically cruising would be my wife and I 25% of the time, 4 adults 50% of the time, and the other 25% being myself single handing her, me with a buddy trolling for stripers or big cats, or my wife and I with our two large dogs. We'll probably plan on trailering it to other larger bodies of water, and never get around to doing so.

Considering both the 21EC and the 23 OB - and potentially other ones as well? But even spending 100K on a boat we don't live ( or sleep) on is a tough pill to swallow.

My concerns with the 21EC- which would be otherwise perfect- would be the narrow beam since it's virtually impossible to tack through wake chop being driven in different directions; her sense of "safety" since the cockpit is below the waterline- and the fact that my ideal cruising speed - 7-10 knots- its the upper end ( and max) of what the 21 EC is capable of. HUGE plusses for the 21 EC are the price; the AC that can be used underway- and what looks to be very comfortable seating.

That brought me to the R23 - wherin my concerns/ questions are: As a hull identified as a "modified full planing hull"- does that mean she rides well as a displacement hull but "can" be brought up on plane when she's kicked in the pants, or is the R 23 designed TO BE run on full plane? How does the R23 OB run at 7-10 knots? All of the full planing hulls I've owned have to be run up on plane, for both trim and steerage issues as well as fuel consumption- so I'm a bit confused on this. From pictures, the cockpit area on the R23 looks more open, but less comfortable and well appointed, than the 21EC. A huge advantage of the R23 is that she's gorgeous- she'll run a lot quieter, and the obvious maintenance advantages of a bolted on fully accessible engine. BUT - are there options for AC that can be used while underway with an OB motor? Heat and humidity is a horrible thing, but I'm not sure about adding house batteries and an upgraded alternator to an OB...I literally have no idea if that's doable.

So- 6342 questions:

What are YOUR experiences with those two different hulls? Is the R23 an "experience boat"- or a "destination boat?" How does she handle cruising off plane? How is the 21EC in crowded seas? How is it day cruising with 4 adults, or the mass equivalent? Is there another boat - Ranger or not- that I should consider? because I just can't get that ranger look and feel out of my head. Can we convince the factory to build an "R23 Angler" with a larger, more appointed cockpit and slightly less cabin, HVAC that's effective and usable undeway- then sell it to me for LESS than the factory cost on a one - off custom boat that doesn't exist yet? :roll:

Help! Thoughts?
 
I had similar concerns before getting our R27 outboard.
1. The R27-OB is great at low speeds, with no steerage issues. And the auto-pilot is surprisingly convenient at those speeds.
2. It is also great at planing speeds, above 20 mph or so. The boat comes up on plane smoothly and gradually, with very little bow rise. You really don't notice any particular moment when it is "on plane".
3. My wife has always been a nervous boater, but after 70 hours in this boat we can be going through 1-2 chop at 28 mph and she's playing a game on her phone not even paying attention. Or walking around cleaning things. We hit a big boat wake yesterday and she hardly looked up. The V of this boat makes it come down into things really softly. The only time it feels a little funny is if you are following a boat and get up on the side of a wake.
4. Our last few outings have been on a lake that's around 30 miles long. We put in at 10am, buzzed down to the other end of the lake at 28 mph for lunch, anchored for awhile in a little bay, met kids at another marina, and were back out of the water by about 5. We could not have done that at 8mph. And personally, I enjoy the speed. Note that our lake is not busy at all.
5. Temps were in the 50's in the morning, and up to 70's in the afternoon. 28mph wouldn't have been as fun if we were out in the wind.
6. Fuel consumption is roughly the same (about 2mpg) at 8-9 mph as at 25 mph. Slower than 8mph and you can get better mileage. I have the Suzuki engine, btw. I believe the Yamaha is the same.

Until now, my experience has been with big wakeboard boats, which are quite a different thing. Last summer we bought a Doral 25' cruiser, which we hated. Horrible steerage at low speeds, felt like taking off in a plane to get it on plane, really touchy steering . . .. This RT is completely different. We could not be happier with it.

Wish I could tell you about the R23--hopefully it's the same!
 
Just to confuse the issue more you should check the availability of diesel fuel on lake Norman. If not available like most lakes then you are limited to one of the OB models anyway. I wanted to keep our R25sc at lake James or Fontana Dam but no diesel fuel at either that I could find. So now we trek down to Pawleys Island, and got a R31cb. 😉
 
Thanks to both replies so far! VERY helpful info - would love to hear from an R23 owner out there!

Scotty Mac- OOH NOO! Thank you so much! I didn't even think of that! I know when we had the Hunter- I'd burn about 5 gallons A SEASON....so I just transported to the marina and filled via hand pump... so I'll have to look even further into it now...that little over sight would've been expensive *ugh*
 
My 2010 R25 is uncomfortable in the wake conditions you describe. You are welcome to try her in a rough conditions in south Florida.

You may regret the “married at first sight” decision if you don’t the one first.


Stuart Bell
Ranger 25: Shearwater
(561) 352-1796
 
captstu":2dww06xm said:
My 2010 R25 is uncomfortable in the wake conditions you describe. You are welcome to try her in a rough conditions in south Florida.

I should amend my comments 🙂 If you're talking about a bunch of 3' criss-crossing rollers like from wakeboard boats, yeah, not sure how comfortable that would be. I haven't seen much of that yet.
 
Morning Puddlejockey. I can probably rule-out the 21EC for you. Our lake in NE Oklahoma sounds very much like yours - long and narrow with A LOT of big/fast boat traffic on summer weekends. While the 21 will handle almost anything, rough conditions are not particularly enjoyable. Also, the boat doesn't go fast enough to get any air when it's hot & humid, although we can make it without AC, in the cabin, out of the sun, with two fans I've installed (room-for-two folks only, though). We are fortunate to have a cottage and covered dock in a protected cove, and just stay off the water when it's too busy or hot.

On the other hand, there's not another boat WE'D have. It only cruises at 7mph, but that's all we need (in our sixties). And fuel consumption of one-half gallon/hour is fun to talk about with other boaters... But the best part is she gets more attention and compliments than the million-dollar hormone-boats :lol:

Good luck with your search. Aside from the cost, the R23 sounds perfect for you.

Cheers,
CN
 
We have had our R23 for a little over a year now and have put a lot of hours on her cruising in the PNW in a variety of different water conditions. One of the things we love about this boat is that she handles beautifully at any speed. So when the water is rough we simply slow down, which also increases fuel economy. The trim tabs are not effective at slow speeds, however, this has not been an issue for us.

We have been in some fairly rough seas (3-4 feet) and while I wouldn't choose to cruise in those kind of conditions, we have felt completely safe as the boat takes the waves very well. Additionally, we have encountered some very large wakes and have not had an issue getting through them safely. It's just a matter of slowing down to take them on. If you don't like slowing down to take wakes, that will be a problem. This is a small boat after all and will not take wakes like a larger boat.

The boat gets up on plane fairly quickly (depending on the load) but doesn't "pop" up like a ski boat. When we have had guests on board I have had the first mate go forward to help get up on plane more quickly. As for stability, keep in mind that with an 8.5 foot beam, there is some rocking when people move around.

We have owned many boats and have never been as happy with any of them as we are our R23. We use it on extended trips as well as day outings and find that it has everything we could want at this time. Maybe we'll go larger in the future but for now we're sticking with what we have!

Hope this information helps as you search for the right boat for you!
 
Frequent lurker popping in to ask; does the R-23 have sitting up headroom in the V-berth?
 
Thanks, All! Olygirl; have you done any significant cruising well below "planing" speed? Particularly in the crowd/ wake conditions we run into- the ideal speed for both creating a nice breeze AND keep things comfy for my bride seems to be in the 10-12kt range....just ABOVE what the 21EC can do- and the absolute worst handling speed for the planing hulled craft I've had in the past... :shock:

Thanks!
 
Yes we have cruised at 11 -12 knots however, the gas mileage goes down considerably at that speed. It’s comfortable but uses more gas than when going a bit slower. I am heading for a week of hiking in the mountains and won’t have connection to internet. If you would like to talk at some point just send me a pm and I’ll get in touch with you when I return! I will be happy to answer any questions you may still have about the R 23.
 
Thanks for the input, all!

Now it's just a conversation with "she who must be obeyed!" I started by showing her the R29 CB ....so she's at NO WAY are we spending 300K for a boat. 🙂 hehe... 🙂
I'll probably let her "win" and settle on an R23 for just over 100K....
 
I did the same thing, showed the Missus the R-29CB. We went towards the R27, then the Cutwater 28, and ended up with the R-29CB 😀 This whole process took about a year, be patient. Let her drive the purchase, don't push. We finally decided it was cheaper to buy the right boat the first time, rather than upgrade in a few years.
 
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