Auction for a sunset cruise !

[baz]

Subject: Auction for a sunset cruise !

My daughter #1 has approached me for offering a "sunset cruise" for a local auction charitable event. She wants me to price out what would be say a 3 to 4 hr cruise around local waters might cost. This cost would then be offered at an auction for people to bid on and the proceeds go to the event organization.

So, I'm game for this and now have to figure out an hourly rate and then arrive at the 3 or 4 hr cruise cost for the auction. In addition I need to write up an interesting & enticing cruise description to make people drool and bid. :lol:

What personal costs should I use to compute the hourly cost I ask ?

I would Captain the boat of course.

Divide all the below by 365x24 to arrive at an hourly rate

1) Annual Boat's depreciation
2) Annual Moorage costs
3) Cost for 3 to 4 hrs of cruising
4) Annual boat Ins
5) Cost for provided food, drinks etc
6) Annual maintenance cost
7) Waiver of liability
8) Total people 7 + Captain
9) Kids ?
10) My time would be free $0
11) what else ??????

Has any one done this sort of thing before ? If so post back some advice, both for and against doing it.

Thanks.... 🙂

 

[Catch22]

Sounds like an intriguing idea from your daughter. I have not done anything similar but would suggest that if you carry umbrella insurance or similar, that you ensure it covers in the event of a paid excursion. My boat insurance just extended coverage to such, but the umbrella might be in question. I'm hoping you get experienced advise here and can proceed.

Dennis..........

 

[baz]

Using the above list items I computed for my boat the cost for a 4 hr cruise would amount to $250 and the biggest cost was the food/drinks/fuel. This seems a bit on the low side, but $250 x 365 for doing this for 4hrs each day of the year is some $91,250. Doing it for 4hrs each weekday would be $250 x 52 x 5 or some $65,000.

FYI... I used $200 for food/drinks/fuel for the 4 hrs.

 

[Catch22]

$250 for four hours ?????.a bit light for sure... What does a local fishing charter charge for a half day??? You are providing food and drink...not bait and tackle.....but the time on the water is equity.......recalculate...

 

[baz]

So.... here's my thinking if I have the cost for doing this correct.

1) The $250 is on the face of it very reasonable for 7 people.

2) The $250 is such that many people might bid and bid the price up way above the $250 which makes the auction profitable for the charity.

3) I would need to describe the cruise in very favorable terms to get peoples'v attention

4) People love boat trips so I would expect many bids to be made

5) I would assume the starting bid should be at least $250

 

[baz]

When I was at Kodiak Island late last year I had 2 grandkids with me and I was charged $300/hr for a cruise to see nature, whales, orcas etc. So I agree, my $250 for 4 hrs does seem on the low side. However, I'm not wanting to profit from this event. I also want people to bid the $250 starting auction price up for the Charity. Whatever the bid price reaches it will ALL go to the Charity.

Should I state that the starting auction bid price should be $1000 ?

 

[ixlr8]

I think this is a great idea, but not to rain on your parade. Do you have all the equipment on board required for a paid (commercial) trip? Do you have/need a formal license for a paid trip? Do you have the correct insurance for a paid trip?
I am a pilot and I can take anybody I want flying, as long as I don't charge for the trip. As soon as I charge, then all sorts of license, insurance and equipment needs change and I don't know if boating is the same.

 

[baz]

I think this is a great idea, but not to rain on your parade. Do you have all the equipment on board required for a paid (commercial) trip? Do you have/need a formal license for a paid trip? Do you have the correct insurance for a paid trip?
I am a pilot and I can take anybody I want flying, as long as I don't charge for the trip. As soon as I charge, then all sorts of license, insurance and equipment needs change and I don't know if boating is the same.

Jim: All good points.

But I'm not charging any dollars for this. It's a free ride for 7 people. Yes a person or the 7 people do pay what they won the auction for and the money goes to the Charity.

I could approach my Ins company and ask them what they would charge me to cover JUST the one-time 4 hr event, and even ask them to throw the cost into the Charity somehow. 😉

 

[baz]

My daughter and I attended a live Auction yesterday for the 17th Annual APDA Magic of Hope Gala & Auction. This year couldn’t be more important as it celebrated the 35th year as the Northwest Chapter of the American Parkinson Disease Association. My 1st Mate Gill died from PD last August.

The auction items were...

· One week at beautiful Ocean Shores on WA Coast- sleeps up to 6 people (Value, $1,400)
· Instant Wine Cellar- boost your cellar with this exciting collection of specially selected wines from Washington and beyond! ($1,397)
· Maui: A Week in Paradise! - Condo in Kihei sleeps up to 6 people ($2,200)
· Seahawks Tickets & Pregame Field Passes ($1,400)
· One Week in Whistler- pick the season! - sleeps up to 6 people ($2,500)
· Two Roundtrip Tickets on Alaska Airlines ($2,500)
· Golf, Dining & Wine for Four at The Club at Snoqualmie Ridge ($2,500)
· Eat, Drink & Be Merry: Diner’s Choice Experience for 12 guests ($1,500)
· Four-Hour Private Dinner Cruise on the Maximo for 20 ($3,500)
· Handmade Quilt by Suzanne Cameron (priceless)
· Private Kaspars Cooking Class for 10 ($1,500)
· Cheer on the Hawks from Delta Sky360 Club Level Suite- 4 people ($5,600)
· Five Night at the Oasis Resort in Palm Springs- 2 ppl ($1,350)
· Southwest Airline Tickets- 4 one-way ($825)
· One week in Kauai, Hawaii- Kapaa condo ideal for 2 adults, 2 children ($2,300)
· Alexander Murray Highland 1965 Single Malt Whisky- aged 54 yrs! ($1,350)
· VIP Experience at Chateau Ste. Michelle- for 2 guests ($1000)
· Roche Harbor Getaway for two with Kenmore Air tickets ($2,800)
· Get into Mischief: Whisky Tasting and Cocktail Party for 20 – Fremont Mischief Distillery ($2,000)

I can tell you these auctions went extremely well. Daughter and I went for a side/silent auction and won for $500 a very nice set Samsonite luggage bags/cases, plus 2x $50 gift certificates for local restaurants and a free 2 night stay in Yakima (Eastern WA)..

 

[Dale777]

Baz,

The legal question might be answered at this link:

https://boatsafe.wordpress.com/2010/02/ ... s-license/

"A Captain’s license is only required if you are taking passengers for hire. Section 2101 of title 46, (21a) of the United States Code defines passenger for hire as follows:

A “passenger for hire” means a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel.

Section 2101 of title 46 (5a) defines “consideration” as an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit including pecuniary (fancy attorney word for money) payment accruing to an individual, person, or entity, but not including a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or donation of fuel, food, beverage, or other supplies.” Additionally, employees or business clients that have not contributed for their carriage, and are carried for morale or entertainment purposes, are not considered as an exchange of consideration."

 

[Ernie]

I’ve done this several times for three different non profits and school auctions. I considered my costs a donation to the cause along with my time. It was very rewarding to share the magic of the Salish sea with new friends. I valued it at $400 and it raised $1000.
I described it with an option of touring fresh water inncluding the locks or salt water that can include Blake island Or Poulsbo. I emphasized that I would work with the winner to plan a trip that they would be fun for them and include their interests.
I learned to include a use by window for dates so I could plan my personal trips around it.
I made a flier and probably have it on my hard drive . PM me and I could send it to you

 

[baz]

Ernie: PM sent. 🙂

 

[baz]

I will Captain the boat.
My son-in-law will act as 1st Mate and lookout.
My daughter #1 will entertain and serve refreshments to guests.

This event is starting to come together. 😀

 

[JamesTXSD]

I have seen this type of thing done for charity auctions. If it is not something you do for hire, I would be hesitant to put a "value" on this... i.e. putting the "value" on it would lead those bidding on it to assume it is a professional operation. While the experience might likely be "priceless," if you have any issue on the water (even through no fault of your own), your "waiver of liability" would be worthless... and you could be held responsible for the consequences.

Exactly this situation happened years ago when a MacGregor 26 sailboat went out on a "harbor tour" that was a charity event, and the boat capsized. There was loss of life.

I do not want to be the one to rain on your parade, just want to make sure you understand your responsibility and liability. No way would I do this without discussing it first with my insurance agent.

Of course, you have to have PFDs for each passenger, and you will want to check with the type of flotation devices and other requirements for operators of a OUPV (Operator of an Uninspected Passenger Vessel). If you are stopped and boarded by the USGC during this trip, they will likely consider this "a charter"... and you without a license.

Things to consider: will your insurance pay if someone trips on the boat and whacks their head? If they slip at the dock. If the 7 people happen to be two parents and 5 small children, will the parents be able to control their kids? Doesn't matter, because once they are on the boat, they are your responsibility. Do you have 5 approved childern's PFDs? Including those necessary for infants? If the people have too much to drink on your boat (you know that alcohol on the water has more effect on people than on land - yes, really) and get stupid, are you going to be able to handle them. What about the drive home after they leave your boat, where you provided the alcohol? Are you familiar with the State of Washington Alcohol Permit for chartered vessels? (It's only $10 and they can get it online.)

If you are at the helm, who will be watching the children in the cockpit... or, heaven forbid, on your command bridge??

This is coming from a retired boat captain. The companies I worked for did scheduled cruises and private charters. Even our smallest boats went out with a captain and a first mate. (both licensed and trained) I have seen all of the above. I have seen private charters expand from "a family of 5" to twelve people, without advance notice. Our boats and crew were able to accommodate.

The odds are very good that you and the folks who win that auction will have a great time. If it were me (and it is not), and the "value" is a consideration, I would want a licensed captain. And even with a Master License, I would not do this on my own boat without having the proper commercial insurance.

With this being a "sunset cruise," are you capable and up to speed with nighttime operation? People arriving for a charter are notorious for being late. In this case, does a late start mean a late return? Plan ahead.

As far as any value is concerned, $250 per hour isn't out of line for a boat your size... IF you charter a licensed captain, on an inspected vessel, and with all the proper insurance and safety equipment, on a boat designed to be a charter vessel. As soon as you start figuring your particular costs to determine a value, you are walking a fine line. Yeah, definitely check with your insurance carrier.

If you decide to do it, I wish you all the best; just want you to go into it with eyes wide open. I enjoyed my boat captain career. But I sure learned how people can behave on a boat that isn't theirs.

 

[JamesTXSD]

I will Captain the boat.
My son-in-law will act as 1st Mate and lookout.
My daughter #1 will entertain and serve refreshments to guests.

This event is starting to come together. 😀

Ah, I saw this post after I posted. So, you are considering 5 guests, 2 crew, and captain (that would make the "7 + captain" you referred to in the first post)? That is better odds. 😉

I often hear people refer to themselves as the "captain" of their boat. I guess I have always reserved that title for someone who has the license. Discuss that, also, with your insurance carrier.

I wish you all the best with the plans.

 

[baz]

JamesTXSD: Thanks very much. The 'downsides' for doing this is/was my biggest concern and you've stated things very succinctly for me. My discussion with my Insurance company will dictate if doing this event is something I can do or not. If nothing else, I would hope they can advise me one way or the other.

 

[knotflying]

Don't get tied up in knots. As a donation for an auction I used to take people for a flight down the Hudson River in my plane to see Manhattan from the air at low altitude. The rules for aviation are very stringent for "Compensation". Long story short you are not being paid. The charity is collecting a financial donation from the auction winner and you are taking some people for a ride on your boat. As far as what the charity should have as a minimum bid, make up an itinerary with sights to see or a place to take them for lunch and then return. They pay for lunch and figure maybe and hour ride to where ever and then an hour back. Starting bid $125.00. Remember, it isn't necessarily the cost V value. Someone is making a donation to the charity and they have a little fun along the way. Many times I have seen auction items go for a lot more than what they could have been purchased for retail. It is all about raising money and having fun along the way. Your donation is your time and the boat.

 

[Nevadamike]

I did not read all of the comments but here is some insurance information. I donated a week at my cabin in Alaska along with guided fishing. I was the guide on my boat. I contacted my Allstate agent prior to offering up the week. I was told as long as I was donating it coverage would fall under my homeowners umbrella policy. Thats my experience. Hope that helps.