Auto Pilot Remote Problem

[baz]

Brian: I checked out this AP issue today when out on the boat. I engaged the AP's feature of navigating a "Guide To" a specified destination by Name each time I tested.

There's no doubt that the 2013.603 or the previous software version has changed the way this feature works when using STBY to temporally change course and then re-engaging the AP to go back to its original course following.

In the past, when I performed this type maneuver the AP would bring me back to the original computed course and follow it. It did this at times with a fairly sharp turn if I had deviated several hundred feet away from the original course line. Knowing this, typically I would manually steer the boat back to be within several feet of the original course line and only then re-engage the AP.

What I now find is that using the above process to return to the original course the AP will immediately go into "Heading Mode" and follow the heading the boat was navigating at the time I press "Engage AP".

Even if I select Menu and Navigation Options to indicate I want to return to my original calculated course of "Guide To" I have to select "Recalculate", but that even does not work and the boat simply steers a course the boat was using when I select "Engage" on the Chart Plotter, and the AP display shows "Heading Mode".

These last two software versions (and I'm not sure one has done this) have royally screwed up what used to be a simple process for returning to the original "Guide To" course line after having to use STBY to make a temporary course change to avoid another boat or some object in the water.

I await for Garmin's Roger Archer to call me back to figure out if this was intended by the software updates or if it's simply an oversight by Gamin's software gurus and constitutes an unintended software bug that needs to be remedied/fixed.

Please keep us informed of what you find out from Garmin with your enquiry… and I'll do the same. Thanks. 🙂

P.S. I wonder if we can have Herb (Willies Tug) check this AP issue as well and say if he also agrees that the software updates have somehow 'screwed' things up for us.. I will PM him… 😉

 

[walldog]

I can only tell you what happens with me while using a saved course. I cruised to Friday Harbor yesterday from Cap Sante using a saved route as a guide. I mostly used heading hold and occasionally engaged the route for periods of time with no issues. I will check the guide to function when we leave Friday Harbor, probably tomorrow or Thursday.

 

[baz]

Thanks Herb. 🙂 Your testing will help Brian and me understand if somehow it only affects us two rather than the problem being more widespread and affecting others.

 

[Gin]

Barry, I think the Garmin person you will hear from is Robert (not Roger) Archer. He went out on our boat with me last Friday to diagnose an autopilot issue on our newly delivered boat. It needed a software update, and then all was well. We didn't actually have to go out on the boat, but he wanted to, to make sure everything was set up correctly. It was. So from there, he gave me a great supplemental hands on lesson on using the autopilot system. He's a super nice guy and totally knows his stuff. He will have an answer for your question, if anyone does.

Gini

 

[Brian B]

Gamin called me back today, they wanted to know what the software version was before the update and if I had more than one chartplotter onboard.
Software design engineers are looking into it.
Barry, I mentioned that you also were experiencing the problem so now they know its not just me.
They will keep me informed.

 

[baz]

Yes... Robert is correct, and I agree he is a super guy and a Super Garmin sleuth at figuring and solving AP issues. I'm sure he and Garmin will not only want to help but will also do every thing possible to solve our AP isssue.

 

[baz]

Gamin called me back today, they wanted to know what the software version was before the update and if I had more than one chartplotter onboard.
Software design engineers are looking into it.
Barry, I mentioned that you also were experiencing the problem so now they know its not just me.
They will keep me informed.

Out of curiosity, what software version did you have installed before updating to v7.6 ?

For me, I believe my Chart Plotter was at v5.4 before updating to v7.6.

Since I have the SD card with v5.4 I wonder if I can down grade my v7.6 to v5.4…. probably not a wise thing to try mind you.

 

[baz]

Robert called me back today after picking up my voicemail I left for him. We have agreed on me calling him when I'm on my boat tomorrow at 10am and hopefully he will be available.

Robert is almost convinced the issue is that the latest software upgrades have unfortunately tweaked an AP setting that is hard for the end user to see and get at. He will try and diagnose the problem via the telephone and with my eyes on the AP. He feels that this can be done without the boat being underway. Of course, to test any fix will require that I get underway as I did yesterday to test things out.

Robert indicated he's heard about this from others and when he hears the same problem twice from owners he reports it directly to software engineering... and I believe they are investigating this issue already. In the meantime, Robert plans to get my AP operating the way it did before the last software upgrade.

Robert and I talked some about the AP issue I had back in 2010. He said that I was responsible for Garmin changing the default AP setting from 'Rudder' mode to 'Heading' mode to avoid the dangerous circle pattern steering that I had been encountering. It's nice to hear/find that my experience has made boating safer for the Garmin AP owners. :roll: 🙂

Robert is the MAN... 🙂

 

[baz]

OK... we have a solution in hand here.

I went to the boat today and called Robert to get a handle on the issue. He walked me through a bunch of settings/selections on the GHC 10 AP display. However no settings/data were altered as Robert found them to be correct. Just for the record this was what was done during this phase of trouble-shooting...

Using the powered up GHC 10 display with Chart Plotter 5212 powered on as well, but engine not running

1) Menu->Setup->System->System Information.
2) Push and hold the center soft button until "Dealer Mode" appears.
3) Now select the "Back" soft button several times until "User Auto Pilot" appears.
4) Now scroll down this menu of items and select "Navigation Setup".
5) Scroll down if necessary to select NMEA Setup
6) At this point Robert did not find any settings/data to be abnormal so this section of problem-solving came to an end.

Robert now wanted to consider if the problem we/I are having is related across everything with the GPS or just the "Guide To" with G2Vision card that is required for the "Guide To" feature.

I also insisted that the problem manifested itself only after updating to software v7.6.

To continue the testing Robert indicated I would need to take the boat out and check all three modes for Navigation using the AP. The three modes were

1) Go To
2) Route To
3) Guide To

Robert wanted me to test all three and report back to him if the problem occurred on all three or any one or two of these modes.

So for the record here, I want to detail the current problem as I see it...

1) Using the "Guide To" mode (G2Vision SD card is inserted in 5212) to have the AP calculate a safe course to a Named destination.
2) Engage the AP to follow the safe course line.
3) The AP now starts to have the boat follow the calculated safe course to the Named destination.
4) Now at some point the I take control of the wheel and the shadow drive gets engaged or I press STBY on the GHC 10 to disengage the AP immediately.
5) Step 4) could be simply to avoid a floating log or to steer around an oncoming boat.
6) This shadow drive or STBY activity could take time.
7) If the shadow drive feature was used as soon as the manual steering maintains a heading for a short time the AP will ask on the 5212 if AP should be re-enaged. If this 5212 display/request is ignored the display/request will disappear from the screen.
8) Now, when the log or oncoming boat has gone by you select Engage on the GHC 10 the AP will NOT return to the calculated safe course but will instead simply engage the AP Heading mode that was being steered.

OK... so I now took the boat out to test things.

I used all three navigation modes for having the AP steer to a waypoint or a destination using the "Guide To" mode. In all three modes the problem as described above occurred.

So now after completing the three tests I called Robert back and indicated the problem was seen with all three navigation modes.

Robert went into thinking mode and suddenly exclaimed that by not responding to the 5212's display/request to re-enage AP navigation or if STBY had been used the AP system determines that the current navigation mode is to be ignored and that AP Heading mode is to be used when selecting the "Engage" soft button on the GHC 10.

I mentioned to Robert that the 5212 display/request will at times simply flash up and then disappear almost immediately and sometimes will persist for a longer period, but in all cases it does disappear if I'm not ready to respond.

Robert's response to this was, well if you choose to ignore the 5212's display/request or it simply flashes up and disappears not giving you time to respond then to re-engage the AP for navigation using original course then the only recourse is to use the GHC 10 to press the Menu soft button and then select "Route To" to get the AP to steer back to the original waypoint or to get back on track to follow the calculated Guide To safe course .

So with this, I re-tested all three navigation modes (using shadow drive and STBY to take control of steering at times) and used the GHC 10 'Menu->Route To' as Robert instructed to have the AP re-engaged to get back onto the original course. This worked without issues in every case. Now of course, if the manual steering took you 100s of feet away from the computed course line the AP will/can/may at times steer the boat aggressively at first to get back on track. In fact the AP may in fact turn the boat in a full circle... This alarming AP maneuver can be avoided by manually steering the boat back to within a few feet of the original course being displayed on the 5212 before selecting Menu->Route To on the GHC 10. Alternatively, one can simply recalculate a new course for the next way point or use the Guide To feature for a safe course and engage that instead.

From my recollection, this method Robert explained is different from what I was used to using the previous Garmin software v5.4 release. I mentioned this to Robert and his advice was to contact Garmin's Software Product Dept and ask why were things changed etc.

I hope this helps others for understanding how the v7.6 software version should be used when using AP for "Go To", "Route To" and "Guide To" navigation modes.

 

[Brian B]

We will be out on the boat for a few days, leaving tomorrow, I'll try using the AP menu as suggested.
This is totally different of how the system functioned before this latest update, actually sounds more cumbersome.
It's been 48 hours since Garmin last contacted me, hopefully they are working on a fix.

 

[baz]

Brian: When you think about it, it really is only one more button press. Rather than pressing the Engage soft button after steering manually via shadow drive or using STBY, you simple press the Menu soft button and then as the top menu item Route To is already highlighted press the Select soft button and boat will return to its original plotted/calculated course.

 

[walldog]

I have to tell you that I never engage a course unless I am very nearly on top of the course. Yes it does sometimes a full circle to reengage a guide to course. I do not like violent maneuvers so I always manually steer to near the course and then engage. Just makes my passengers and other boats happier. It seems the autopilot will take you to the course via shortest distance disregarding that makes the distance to destination longer. I always figured that is just the way it is...and worked with it....not expecting it be totally logical.

 

[baz]

Herb: I agree with you about wanting to avoid violent maneuvers. I also will steer the boat manually to get within around 10 feet of the original course line before pressing "Menu->Route To". It's a much safer way to operate the boat and less scary for all.

Herb: Do you see that this 'new' method for getting the boat back to original AP navigation is different from before the v7.6 update ?

 

[Irish Mist]

Just out of curiosity ... Has there been any advantage to upgrading the software ? Mine is what ever version came on a 2011 and is working great so I have not upgraded, and from some of the posting am glad I haven't I'm sure I will at some point but will wait until all you software testers give the thumbs up 🙂

 

[baz]

Just out of curiosity ... Has there been any advantage to upgrading the software ? Mine is what ever version came on a 2011 and is working great so I have not upgraded, and from some of the posting am glad I haven't I'm sure I will at some point but will wait until all you software testers give the thumbs up 🙂

My thumb is up... 😛

For the record, since late 2009 I've made 3 software upgrades to my 5212 Garmin system (Chart Plotter, Auto Pilot combo). Only this last one to v7.6 gave me some cause for concern... and that's resolved now with some education from Garmin yesterday. Herb on Willie's Tug did have an issue with v7.6 but the latest iteration of v7.6 (the 2013.0603 one) resolved his AP remote issue that was caused by the previous v7.6 (I believe it was 2013.0516) release.

Brian is likely to post back with his opinion of the latest v7.6 software release.

When upgrading note these --

http://support.garmin.com/support/s...caseId={755532e0-a2be-11e2-5037-000000000000}

https://support.garmin.com/support/...caseId={93763230-e2ad-11de-5bd3-000000000000}

 

[Brian B]

Brian: When you think about it, it really is only one more button press. Rather than pressing the Engage soft button after steering manually via shadow drive or using STBY, you simple press the Menu soft button and then as the top menu item Route To is already highlighted press the Select soft button and boat will return to its original plotted/calculated course.

I just returned from a 52 nm round trip 4 day cruise and had plenty of time to play with the auto guidance.
Barry, I did find it to function as you described, thanks for figuring that out with Garmin.
Unless this is how the system is designed to operate now I find it to be an alternative method.
I really liked the way the auto guidance would recalculate from the present position after putting the AP on standby and set the new course without any sharp maneuvers.
Right now I wish I hadn't done the upgrade.
Still waiting for Garmin to re-contact me.

 

[Brian B]

Not to beat this subject to death but I called Garmin today after waiting 8 days for them to call me.
The final answer is that the software engineers are working on the problem and a fix will be in the next issued update.
I asked when that might be and they did not have an answer.
They told me that if the products are registered then email notifications are sent when updates are issued.

 

[baz]

Thanks Brian... That Email push notification is news to me. I will make sure my Garmin devices are registered and my Account preferences are set to have Email notifications related to my Garmin devices. . When we bought our R-25 in late 2009 I did ask Ranger Tugs about product registration and was told the factory handled this and not to worry. However, I've found that in several cases I've had to register things myself. A good example was my Yanmar engine that needed to be registered and thank goodness I did as there have been 2 recalls for fixing things on the engine. The servicer for these two things took my engine serial number and sent that along to Yanmar for reimbursement and because my engine was registered there was absolutely no issue for them being reimbursed.

So with that, I will be checking that my Garmin devices are all registered correctly... and I did do this several years back, so fingers crossed that's all intact.

 

[baz]

Checked my Garmin account and all is well as it listed my GPSmap 5212, GHC10/CCU Course Computer Unit. GPS 17N and GMR 18 HD RADAR as being registered. I checked my Notification options to ensure I get Email for software updates as well. 🙂 It's convenient entering just the Unit IDs as finding the Serial Numbers on the backsides of each component would be a PITA.

 

[Gin]

I've been trying to retrieve the serial numbers off of my Garmin components. So far, without success. They are tucked away on the undersides and backsides in places I just haven't been able to get a good look at. I'm not done trying (going to take an inspection mirror with me next time). But I did get the unit ID off the chartplotter. If that number will work, that will be great. Does anyone know whether all the components can be registered? I ask because I couldn't find them all in the mile-long list on Garmin's website. In particular, I didn't find the autopilot. Haven't looked for the radar unit in the list.

For what it is worth, I have had a lot of Garmin products over the years, and they have all been registered. They are still showing up on "My Garmin" under my account, even though a few of them are no longer in service (gotta remove them). I rarely if ever get email notices on updates on the software. I learn of them for some of the products through the desktop updater software.

Gini