Auto Pilot: What has worked for you?

As far as I can tell after talking to Ray Marine tech at length and downloading the install PDF, the Sport Pilot X-5 will steal about 2 inches of space between the wheel and the helm seat...maybe a little less. The seat can be moved aft about .75 inches without too much fuss, so the issue is really about a fat inch. The X-5 is getting good reviews after a fix a few months ago regarding a part that sometimes failed. The mechanical steering in the R21EC is a Uflex rack and pinion, and Ray Marine is the only fit that I can find that is a no brainer. The entire system with a remote control unit is about $2000 and does not need rudder feedback hardware. I am inclined to go with it as is and suffer the inch of lost space. I would appreciate any pertinent feedback if I am missing something, as described above.

Best,

Andrew C Homes
 
Andrew,
I had this debate with the sportpilot. I really wanted to go that route too, but after disassembling the helm, I just couldn't make it work for me. I think it had adding about 2+ inches by our calculations, (though we never considered moving the seat). I just couldn't find a place for my knees with that configuration. (I'm six feet with bad posture, so I was half the problem). And as it happened, the sportpilot was just released, but there was going to a wait to get one so we went with the available S1G system and new steering. Aside from the blowing the autopilot budget to smithereens, I'm very pleased with this system. It's dead accurate and virtually silent.

The funny thing is that after a full season on the boat, I found myself sitting in the passenger side most of the time anyway.

But I do think that Ranger should include an autopilot on the options list for the 21. The boat is well suited for it and it opens up more possibilities.

Gregg
 
Hello Gregg,

Thanks for the response. What advantage did you discover with the SG1? I assume you went to hydraulic steering and were therefore able to mount the steering unit and/or the auto helm pump behind the dash and thus save the little bit of space between wheel and knees. How did the unit connect with your rudder?

I have done some Simrad Hydraulic auto pilots and if I must go with a hydraulic steering, I think I would put Baystar steering together with the Simrad AP2400, and forget about RayMarine altogether. It is critical for my purposes to have a basic auto pilot as I do fishing charters and must leave the helm to tend the downriggers and other rigs in the water. I do not need sophisticated auto pilot features but just the ability to hold a course in rough conditions while tending rigs or landing fish.

It is very frustrating that the mechanical steering system that Ranger decided upon is so limited regarded an auto helm. For the price of the boat, it seems a hydraulic steering system would have been a better place to start and would have offered much more flexibility for auto helm installation.

I also wanted to confirm the possibility of the Yanmar 30 hp trolling down to 2 mph. I do not think that there is a trolling valve for this engine as the transmission may not be hydraulic...I can't get this bit of info yet.

How low a trolling speed can you get with your boat?

Thanks again,

Andrew
 
Andrew,

The absolute min. speed I've been able to get is 2 knots (per GPS) at approx. 800 rpm. I wouldn't care to run it for any distance at that speed. The engine shakes, rattles and doesn't seem at all happy. 🙁

Gene
 
Hi Gene,

I am doing the research and agree with your experience with 800 RPMs. The motor needs to run at least 1000 RPMs to be happy and that is a little fast for trolling in my world, except into a headwind. Mostly we troll between 2 and 2.7 for lakers and LandLocked salmon, and speed is quite critical, depending on the bite. So then, I will plan on a kicker like a Honda or Merc 8-10 hp mounted, perhaps, on the swim platform. As far as the auto pilot, I will go with the RayMarine X-5 Sport as I do not usually sit with my knees squeezed together but rather with my knees around the wheel anyway so 2 inches is of no real consequence. All boats are a compromise anyway, and 60k for a 21 foot boat is a radical decision as that much money can buy a boat with lots of knee room. I am too old and have had too many boats that I did not like, so I am opting for a boat that I do like and will make the things that do not work for my needs, work by way of creative thinking.
 
Since I have to listen to all you guys talk about your 20 kt+ boats most of the time I would like to mention that LENABELL's 75hp Yanmar will handle 2 kts very well.
 
ac holmes, when in the Seattle area a few weeks ago I noticed at least three R-21s with outboards attached. They seemed to be rigged for fishing. I'm with you about having many boats and some I didn't like. I like the R-21 EC, but for the money I wish I'd kept my Albin 27 AC. For half the price, I had complete (new) Garmin electronics, GPS, chartplotter (10' screen), radar, satellite weather & radio, depth, two cabins w/heat and AC, head and shower room; I didn't have an electric reefer, or a trailer. My fuel burn rate was 0.75 gph vs 0.6 gph.

commander bill, what rpm is the engine running and have you ever lifted your hatch to the engine compartment of your 75 HP yanmar when running at 2 knots? I had a 77 hp version of that same engine in an Albin 27 AC and it jumped and rattled when I tried to run it at that low of a speed. If your's is happy at that speed you might have different gearing, or just a happier engine. 😉

Both my 30 hp and 77 hp Yanmars hate(d) any rpm less than 1000, but are/were happy above that to WOT. 😀

Gene
 
Hi Andrew,
The S1G allowed the drive pump to be located at the stern of boat, (beside the fuel tank). So with the exception of being at idle and trolling, the pump is inaudible. Second, I believe the system is very accurate, (as any system should be) at least so far. Third, I saved my knees. In fact, I gained about a half inch more with the new helm. A small plate was fabricated to take up some of the extra room that was gained when the helm was reassembled. The rudder indicator is bonus. It's helpful knowing where the rudder is when giving a shot of power out of the slip. The control unit is under the sink so it's out of the way yet access is good. The control head is mounted above the centre window on the teak board. In the end, its a nice clean installation and the system works well.

I agree with you on the steering choice for the 21. It should be hydraulic; particularily for reasons such as this. Replacing the steering created some challenges at the rudder because of access, limited attachment points. and placement of the lines. But in the end, things worked out fine. I think if Ranger considers changing from mechanical, the current layout might want to be looked at.

With trolling, I find the boat runs a bit fast. Here in Georgian Bay, heading into the wind is usually fine (trolling for Salmon or Lake Trout), but downwind is too quick. This is also where I find the autopilot becomes noticeable. There is constant course correction at low RPMS. The pump can run almost continuously while trying to maintain course and correct for wind and waves. The autopilot performs in this condition, but it's distracting with all the pump activity.

Personally, I think a separate trolling motor is the best solution for someone who does a lot of fishing. It would definatley be much on easier on the yanmar and quieter.

Gregg
 
Hi Gregg and others,

The topics of auto helm and trolling speed with the R21EC seems a lively one. Just to extend the discussion a bit further, I have observed that an auto helm of any kind works just like hand steering. That is to say, if conditions are tough with hand steering, for example slow trolling speed and lots of wind and waves on the nose, any auto helm is going to grind away constantly attempting to maintain a reasonable course.

IMHO, The trolling speed issue is best adjusted and maintained by a "kicker" and I suspect 5 hp is about right for the 21 foot hull. Also, that set up is much quieter than the Yanmar which would be shaking and stuttering at 800 rpms, and wearing itself out prematurely. A 5 horse could be mounted on the swim platform without too much trouble or directly to the transom with a bracket.

Cheers,

Andrew
 
Min RPM on Lenabell is about 800 RPM & she runs very smooth. However, I am sure that my boat likely comes with a different prop than the 110hp version since I only get about 10.5 kts max at 3200 RPM. As such my ability to go at 2-3 kts smoothly may be due more to gearing. I would guess my RPMs at 2-3 kts would match most other boats going 3-4 kts.
 
commander bill, sounds like your engine's characteristics are more to my liking. 🙂

Gregg, how about posting some photos of the auto pilot installation on your boat?

Gene
 
Gene,

I'll get some shots this weekend and try to get them up on Sunday.

Gregg
 
Gene and all ,
I've posted a few images of the autopilot work in our photo album. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Gregg
 
Gregg,

Thanks for the photos! Looks like a really clean, neat installation. Bet it was a lot of work. I'd have to find another place for the control unit. My AC is under the sink/stove.

Is that a wireless device mounted beside control unit?

I smile everytime I see/hear the word "wireless". I have a wireless control for the thruster(s), still in the box. If I can ever conceive of a situation where I'd have need for it, I'll install it. On a 21 foot boat with a single helm? Now, a wireless control for an auto pilot is high on my list (along with an auto pilot). I can visualize sitting back in the cockpit driving the boat, especially in the summertime.

Gene
 
Gene,

Yes, it is the receiver unit for the remote. It's quite handy. I was sceptical at first but I keep it with me always now when I'm alone. It's nice to have when I leave the cabin and need to go forward to clean up lines and fenders.

It's a good system, overall. Then again, any autopilot system should be good. The sportpilot was my first choice because it looked to be straightforward installation and good value. As it would happen though circumstances brought me to a different decision. I still think the sportpilot is great way to go.

I used it constantly this season so I found it invaluable, especially when heading out solo and during those long straight (slow) passages.

Cheers

Gregg
 
I had almost decided to install a Raymarine S1000 AP during LENABELL's winter refit period. However, when I downloaded the installation manual I noted it said it was designed to work with 2 specific brands of hydrualic sterring systems (about 8 total models listed). My R25 has a Ultraflex system rather than the 2 brands listed on website. I do not know if my sterring system is unique to LENABELL or if I have same model as everyone else. I do know that several of you have the S1000 autopilot on your boats & it appears to be an excellent buy for what it is designed to do (simple low cost virtual type AP). I have 2 questions:

Could those with the S1000 AP look at your helm steering unit & see what model you have.

Would those with the S1000 still order this AP knowing what they currently know about Raymarine (business future uncertain)?
 
commander bill,

I'm not sure I'd be too concerned about Raymarine's future, if you can find the AP model you want. I don't believe Garmin has an AP like the Raymarine S1000 in their line. They'll probably just re-brand it instead of developing one of their own.

Gene
 
It does not appear that anyone else makes an AP as simple and low cost as the S1000. Also, for the cost I would be willing to take a chance. However, I still have the question of will it fit my helm pump. My helm pump is an ULTRAFLEX UP Series rather than a Seastar or Baystar as listed in S1000 installation manual. If anyone with the S1000 can tell me they have same helm pump as I have which worked it would solve my concern. The ULTRAFLEX looks very similar to photos of the Seastar & Baystar pumps
 
The Laurie Ann as the exact same system as yours. The installation was straight forward and we remain very pleased with it. Yes, we would do it again.
 
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