Automatic side of aft bilge pump not working

[bpanerio]

My aft bilge pump works manually, but not automatically. I replaced the elctromagnetic sensor and it still will only work if I manually turn it on. I looked for a fuse just for the sensor, but I can't find one in the manual or find one visibly. Is there a fuse specifically for the sensor, or do I have two bad sensors?

 

[Kevin Lamont]

My aft bilge pump works manually, but not automatically. I replaced the elctromagnetic sensor and it still will only work if I manually turn it on. I looked for a fuse just for the sensor, but I can't find one in the manual or find one visibly. Is there a fuse specifically for the sensor, or do I have two bad sensors?

Hello,

There is a fuse for the auto side and a fuse for the manual side. The fuse for the auto side would be located in the 1/4 berth on the 24/7 fuse block. Should be labeled bilge float. Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Kevin Lamont

 

[Capt’nKarl]

I just went through a similar issue with the high water alarm on my 23. The bilge would work manually but the auto mode would only work when the engine switch was in the ON position. I discovered the wiring for the 24/7 fuse box was incorrectly wired to the engine switch and not the HOUSE switch as it should have been. It was an easy fix. This may not be the same problem you’re having but I thought it was worth mentioning.
Cheers,
Karl

 

[bpanerio]

I looked in the 1/4 berth for anything labeled bilge float and found nothing. I found a fuse for bilge pump 1 and bilge pump 2, but nothing for automatic. I've got to figure this out soon. We went to sleep, only to wake up at midnight and find ourselves standing in water up to our knees in the forward berth. The quick connect fresh water nipple had broken off and fresh water was filling the boat. Dangerous situation.

 

[Capt’nKarl]

We may not have the same set up but take a look at this. Trace the main 24/7fuse box wire from the fuse box to your switch panel (HOUSE, PARALLEL,ENGINE). The fuse panel wire from the 24/7 panel should be connected to the house switch. Additionally On the 23 the bilge pump checks for water every 2 1/2 minutes regardless. Look at your helm bilge control switch and see if it flashes briefly every 2 1/2 minutes. If it doesn’t flash then you’ve got a power issue. These electrical issues are interesting to me as I learn more about them. Please let us know what you find and the solution.

 

[knotflying]

I looked in the 1/4 berth for anything labeled bilge float and found nothing. I found a fuse for bilge pump 1 and bilge pump 2, but nothing for automatic. I've got to figure this out soon. We went to sleep, only to wake up at midnight and find ourselves standing in water up to our knees in the forward berth. The quick connect fresh water nipple had broken off and fresh water was filling the boat. Dangerous situation.

I believe the fuses you found are the correct ones. The rocker switches at the panel are for the manual side. The other fuses should be the automatic side.

 

[Matty]

Did you happen to pull and check the fuses you found?? Would be helpful to have that information to isolate the problem. They are the correct fuses. I do not think it would say “float” on an automatic bilge pump.
If it was the wiring issue above you would be able to check that right away by turning on and off engine battery and seeing if automatic works. If it is wired wrong simply leave engine battery switch on at night until you can get it fixed.

 

[asm777]

I looked in the 1/4 berth for anything labeled bilge float and found nothing. I found a fuse for bilge pump 1 and bilge pump 2, but nothing for automatic. I've got to figure this out soon. We went to sleep, only to wake up at midnight and find ourselves standing in water up to our knees in the forward berth. The quick connect fresh water nipple had broken off and fresh water was filling the boat. Dangerous situation.

Those are the two correct fuses. Bilge pump 1 and bilge pump 2 are for the forward and aft bilge pumps (not 100% sure which is which from memory)

There's likely a blown fuse in one (or possibly both) of those spots. You can likely replace with a similarly rated automotive fuse from any auto parts store (cheaper than at west marine!).

On our C30, after going through about half a dozen 5amp fuses in a short period, we were advised to replace with a 7.5amp fuse and haven't had any issues since.

Hope you get it figured out!

 

[bpanerio]

Thanks to all for your input. It ended up being the fuses labeled Bilge Pump #1 and Bilge Pump #2. Working great. Thanks!

 

[Salish Seaker]

I thought I'd restart a conversion on this thread since I'm experiencing the same issue. I hope the OP doesn't mind. Like his issue, the automatic side of both my Rule 27SA bilge pumps do not work. This has been confirmed implementing the garden hose test filling the bilge pretty deep. I changed out the fuses in the doghouse, tried turning engine key to ON position but still no blinking on manual switches every 2 1/2 minutes and no auto discharge.

Can anyone tell me how to test the fuse connections in the doghouse using a multimeter? I don't know where the ground is in order to connect and test. Problem is, I can't recall if the auto function ever worked in our 2+ year old boat having not tested before. My bad.

I've read many posts that say the bilge pumps have failed and need to be replaced. I'm just trying to save a couple of hundred $ hoping to figure this out. It seems very coincidental that both pumps would fail. Any suggestions?

Peter

 

[Capt’nKarl]

Peter. Is there power to the CO monitor in the 1/4 berth? The CO monitor and the bilge pumps both work off the 24/7 fuse box.

 

[Salish Seaker]

Thanks Karl, I'll look into that.

I do know the downrigger are connected to the 24/7 fuse box and they work. I'm suspecting it's wired correctly and the pumps may be bad.

 

[knotflying]

I thought I'd restart a conversion on this thread since I'm experiencing the same issue. I hope the OP doesn't mind. Like his issue, the automatic side of both my Rule 27SA bilge pumps do not work. This has been confirmed implementing the garden hose test filling the bilge pretty deep. I changed out the fuses in the doghouse, tried turning engine key to ON position but still no blinking on manual switches every 2 1/2 minutes and no auto discharge.

Can anyone tell me how to test the fuse connections in the doghouse using a multimeter? I don't know where the ground is in order to connect and test. Problem is, I can't recall if the auto function ever worked in our 2+ year old boat having not tested before. My bad.

I've read many posts that say the bilge pumps have failed and need to be replaced. I'm just trying to save a couple of hundred $ hoping to figure this out. It seems very coincidental that both pumps would fail. Any suggestions?

Peter

First check to make sure the pump works in manual mode. If it does the pump is good and your issue is the automatic side. If your sensors are the electronic ones make sure they are clean with no oil film. There are two embossed circles that you touch with two fingers and that should engage the pump as a test. To test your fuse set you multimeter to ohms. Pull the fuse and touch each end. you should read zero ohms or if you have a continuity buzzer you will get the buzz. If fuses are good, but still no joy then use a wire probe on the two wires coming out of the sensor and basically short them out to one another. This is bypassing the sensor. If the pump works replace the sensor.

 

[Salish Seaker]

Thanks knotflying for the tips. I'll give them a try. Yes the manual side works on both. However in this model, there are no test circles. I'll keep trying.

 

[Salish Seaker]

Just following up. I broke down and bought a couple of new Rule Mate 1100B bilge pumps since I could not find a solution for the problem with the automatic side of the bilge pumps not working on the factory installed Rule 27SA pumps as I know the 24/7 fuse box is working fine. I figured I would upgrade to the Rule Mates at a better price. Both models are 1100gph. I finally got a chance to install them today and voila, SUCCESS! Both new bilge pumps now work in both manual and automatic mode. Strange that the original pumps would fail after 3 years...

Peter

 

[Hamster]

Bumping this post again. I have 2 out of 3 of my Rule Automatic 1100 bilge pumps (Model 27SA) now failing the automatic function - not the manual.

I'm curious if Salish Seeker can tell the difference with the Rule Mate 1100. It appears to not do the automatic cycling, but instead sense whether water is in the bilge. Is this a better solution?

Having 2 of 3 pumps no longer function automatically after just over 2 years is not comforting. For those with this model, please make sure you check to see that all are actually cycling because if you leave your boat and the bilge fills up, the pumps might not activate.

 

[BB marine]

Bumping this post again. I have 2 out of 3 of my Rule Automatic 1100 bilge pumps (Model 27SA) now failing the automatic function - not the manual.

I'm curious if Salish Seeker can tell the difference with the Rule Mate 1100. It appears to not do the automatic cycling, but instead sense whether water is in the bilge. Is this a better solution?

Having 2 of 3 pumps no longer function automatically after just over 2 years is not comforting. For those with this model, please make sure you check to see that all are actually cycling because if you leave your boat and the bilge fills up, the pumps might not activate.

Bilge pumps and Auto bilge pumps are one of the most important components installed in the boat. Yet the pumps seem to have a high fail rate. At least the automatic side of the pump does. If you put an electrical component in water it is going to fail! If you put a mechanical component in a bilge it's going to get fouled.

The mechanical float switches worked for years. But.... If the bilge was dirty the float would get stuck, pump would come on and run until it overheated and destroyed the pump motor.

Then the floats were installed in protected cages with micro switches. These seemed to work better as long as the boat owner kept a clean bilge. If not, oily Gunk, small pieces of debris, would build up in and outside of the cage and the float would get stuck on or the float would not operate freely and work erratically.

Electronic sensing switches were introduced using the water to be the conductor. Water level gets to the conductive sensors the pump turns on. No moving parts but electrical devise under water. Sealing the devise properly during manufacturing was an issue. The sensors that were built right worked great the sensors that didn't failed. I call that the manufacturing rule 10% failed and that 10% are there ones we heard about. The more common issue with these auto switches , dirty bilges caused a build up of gunk around the sensor, this interfered with the water making good continuity.

The load sensing switches were introduced. The load sensing are electronic, operate on a continuous on/off cycle, If operated in a dirty bilge, or small debris gets lodged in the cage, or not (sealed properly 10% rule) They will probably fail.


One additional cause of failure to all of the above float switches is electrical installation. In my years of repairing systems in boats. Bilge pump failures were a common issue. It was also a PIA. Many are installed in hard to get to places. Many times a failed bilge pump switch or pump was due to poor wiring. The connections were made low in the bilge instead of high in the compartment. The connection was not water tight. Eventually corrosion caused a poor high resistant connection, fuses would blow or the pump or switch would not work at all. Pumps and switches are replaced and seemed to resolve the issue but in reality the installation of new components required a new connection and that is really what fixed the issue.


The theme I am trying to make is Auto float switches fail, pumps fail, 10% rule. Most of the failures have to do with installation and maintenance.

*Keep the wire connections clean, dry and sealed.
*keep the bilge clean, oil free and debris free
*Inspect the bilge pump, clean debris around it. Know where the fuses are located . Know the proper fuse size based on what the pump manufacture states for the model. Not what was installed or someone tells you will work. Never install larger fuse unless it is required by the specifications of the pump.
* test the operation periodically not when you have a problem.

You may find the reliability to be better with preventative maintenance. Or you are unfortunate to be in the 10% Rule!