Balance and Steering question

[SKI3PO]

Not sure if this is a problem or not. Any insight appreciated.

My 2014 R27 requires constant tension on the rudder to starboard when operating at semi-displacement speeds of 14-15 kts. Also the rudder seems to gradually lose its hold every 15-30 seconds requiring another half turn on the wheel to starboard. In adding half turns to the wheel repeatedly I never seem to hit "hard over". This happens after I trim the boat to level using the trim tabs. It even shows up on my Garmin chartplotter which shows the boat at slight angle to my forward course direction. At slower speeds it doesn't seem to be much of a problem. When maneuvering in the harbor I can hit hard over after 3-4 turns in either direction with the wheel. Hasn't been a real problem just more of annoyance. Doesn't seem to impact autopilot performance although the boat is shown at an angle to the route on my garmin screen in autopilot also. A couple of thoughts:

1. Is this a design characteristic of the R27 classic. It seems all of the passenger seating and battery storage are on the port side and that might make the boat imbalanced.

2. I did install new batteries after purchasing my boat and the new batteries added 20-25 pounds to the port side. Doesn't seem like much, but maybe this is contributing to the problem?

3. Is this a product of the prop rotation and thus perfectly normal?

4. When on autopilot the heading on the autopilot and the one on the chart plotter are frequently off from 5-20 degrees. Might this be related or is this a different problem?

Thoughts?

 

[Cutwater28GG]

I've found that if I over trim bow down, the bow can dig in and the ride becomes unstable if the bow catches a wave: the bow spears off to either side. trimming more bow up solves this instability. The symptoms you describe are very similar when I have over trimmed down.

I also have to trim out starboard to port balance. my 2.5Hp engine on the port stern rail and the batteries give me a port list. trimming this balance out causes my track to be a little crooked as you describe. essentially imbalanced weight that's being corrected with trim tabs results in an inefficient ride with higher fuel economy. The only real way to solve this is to move two batteries from port to starboard as others have done but Im putting up with the issue for now as its not worth the effort to me to rewire the battery compartment.

 

[Red Raven]

We have a 2014 R27 that does not exhibit the steering problems you describe. It tracks straight at 15 knots without touching the wheel even with a weight imbalance. Possibly you have air in the hydraulic steering system. It is my understanding it requires special equipment to properly bleed the system so you will need to find a shop that has the equipment. If caused by the trim tabs correcting a weight imbalance you could add some ballast to the starboard side to balance the boat out.

The GPS heading error is likely unrelated. This is common due to wind and/or current causing the boat to crab. If it is consistently off in the same direction your autopilot compass (CCU) needs to be recalibrated. This is easy to do yourself using the Sea Trial Wizard. You’ll need to activate dealer mode to get to the Sea Trial wizard. The instructions are in your auto pilot manual or can be found on-line.

Good luck!

Curt

 

[Andrew Custis]

There was some known autopilot pump issues that would cause the steering to pull in one direction or the other. To summarize how to figure this out, close (tighten) the three straight edge screws on the end of the autopilot pump where the hoses exit. Do not turn on the autopilot or use it and go and run the boat. If the steering goes back to normal, you most likely have a bad pump and it will need to be replaced. To reopen the valves, loosen the three screws until you feel a little resistance and stop.

If the pump needs replaced, a call to Garmin would be best. They can tell you who to work with and how to get a replacement.

Thank you,

 

[Smcavana]

We have a problem with our Garmin autopilot also on our 2011 R27 Classic, new to us as of late last year. The first two times we used the AP it worked flawlessly. The next time it worked well, but in the middle of our trip suddenly turned hard to port and then promptly returned to our intended course. Since then, we have tested the autopilot twice. Each time it turns hard to port after a few seconds of being engaged. Anyone have any ideas?

 

[baz]

Michael:

1) Are you by chance using the change heading by 1º/2º using the port side change heading button ?
2) When the boat turns hard to port and you let it persist does the boat complete a circle ?

I ask these two questions because on my 2010 R-25 (Classic) I had a problem with the auto pilot such that when performing 1) above for either starboard or port buttons the auto pilot would perform a 'man overboard' maneuver. It took 4 hrs for a Garmin Technician onboard with me to figure out the cause along with talking to the Garmin's auto pilot's software guru in Sweden at the time. It was a software glitch which was then resolved by the onboard Garmin Technician.

You issue sounds very similar but of course could be entirely different.

No matter, you need to resolve this ASAP as with the auto pilot performing such a dangerous course correction could be very dire for you and others.

 

[Smcavana]

Thanks for the input. No, we weren't using the buttons for gradual course change, and I don't know if the boat would have done a complete circle--we didn't wait to find out! Maybe next time we're by ourselves on a calm day, we'll see if that happens. In the meantime, we've just gone to hand steering. I was wondering if there is a way to do a hard reboot on the control unit. Maybe that would reset the software? Anyway, thanks for the info.

 

[knotflying]

Not sure if this is a problem or not. Any insight appreciated.

My 2014 R27 requires constant tension on the rudder to starboard when operating at semi-displacement speeds of 14-15 kts. Also the rudder seems to gradually lose its hold every 15-30 seconds requiring another half turn on the wheel to starboard. In adding half turns to the wheel repeatedly I never seem to hit "hard over". This happens after I trim the boat to level using the trim tabs. It even shows up on my Garmin chartplotter which shows the boat at slight angle to my forward course direction. At slower speeds it doesn't seem to be much of a problem. When maneuvering in the harbor I can hit hard over after 3-4 turns in either direction with the wheel. Hasn't been a real problem just more of annoyance. Doesn't seem to impact autopilot performance although the boat is shown at an angle to the route on my garmin screen in autopilot also. A couple of thoughts:

1. Is this a design characteristic of the R27 classic. It seems all of the passenger seating and battery storage are on the port side and that might make the boat imbalanced.

2. I did install new batteries after purchasing my boat and the new batteries added 20-25 pounds to the port side. Doesn't seem like much, but maybe this is contributing to the problem?

3. Is this a product of the prop rotation and thus perfectly normal?

4. When on autopilot the heading on the autopilot and the one on the chart plotter are frequently off from 5-20 degrees. Might this be related or is this a different problem?

Thoughts?

# 4 may or may not be a problem. You may want to go through the calibration process to make sure things are set properly. However, before you do that make sure you have no metal objects near the sensor located in the cave about 2 feet off the floor just forward of the cave opening. Metal near the sensor can wreak havoc.
Also keep in mind, where the bow is pointed and the direction a boat is traveling can be two different numbers. Depending on current and wind direction one may have to have the bow facing several degrees port or starboard to stay on a prescribed course to make up for the two variables. When flying that is called crabbing. So the more severe the opposing wind or current are against your desired course the more pronounced the degree differential will be.

As stated above, if you over trim the boat it can get a bit squirrely and this could be your problem. I usually have my bow at or above horizon. Once you put in your desired RPM's play with the trim to give you optimal speed. This should also give you the proper steering authority.

 

[rpmerrill]

Go for the simplest solutions/causes first.

Two items to think about. (maybe three)
Make sure your trim tabs are both working equally.
Bring them both all the way up then hold them down for , say, 10 seconds and go back and look to see if they have moved equally. Repeat for another 10 or more seconds and recheck.
Bear in mind that if you call for starboard side bow down, the port trim tab is actuated and will act as drag on the port side. This will momentarily cause the boat to go to port until the AP corrects to starboard.
Just a thought to be aware of.

Regarding the GPS vs the AP heading display.
Make sure they are both reading the Magnetic heading or both reading the True heading.
I may be talking down to you on this, If so I apologize, but it was just this week that I made the simple changes to synchronize the AP and GPS.(and my compass). Beyond that, there is that calibration procedure.

Also, from rereading it sounds like there is a leak internal to the hydraulic steering system that is allowing the loss of fluid in the steering pump or cylinder that is letting fluid go back from hi to lo side. Thus requiring an extra turn on the helm ever 15 to 30 seconds. You probably gotta get the first two items settled before you do the more complicated search for problems in item three.

 

[SKI3PO]

There was some known autopilot pump issues that would cause the steering to pull in one direction or the other. To summarize how to figure this out, close (tighten) the three straight edge screws on the end of the autopilot pump where the hoses exit. Do not turn on the autopilot or use it and go and run the boat. If the steering goes back to normal, you most likely have a bad pump and it will need to be replaced. To reopen the valves, loosen the three screws until you feel a little resistance and stop.

If the pump needs replaced, a call to Garmin would be best. They can tell you who to work with and how to get a replacement.

Thank you,

Andrew wins the prize! Hydraulic pump is bad. New part is on its way and we should be back in business by next weekend. Thanks for your ideas and input everyone!