Batteries / hard starting in low temps

Boatman

Active member
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
35
Fluid Motion Model
C-24 C (Sterndrive)
Hull Identification Number
RFB02664D593
Vessel Name
TUG-ALONG
😀 Well, guys now that the winter wx is in full swing, batteries seem to be the hot topic, no pun intended. I am offering this info in case it is helpful to others. There will be some follow up postings as this hard starting issue unfolds. My 3GM30F built in 93 only has 550 hours on it if the hour meter reading can be trusted. I recently bought this R21 which was originally known as "Sea Spirit" and now answers to the name of TUG-ALONG. She was a trade in. The engine is becoming hard to start. I suspect its due to multiple issues. One is the colder temps. A second reason is that there is only one battery, a Costco deep cycle with 550 CCA series 24. This battery could start the engine in warmer wx but will barely crank the engine now that it is cooler, 40's-50's. My understanding is that if there is not enough capacity to properly engage the starter and crank the engine with authority, you can wind up damaging the contacts in the starter by causing intermittent arching. To alleviate this problem I have removed the battery and #6 AWG battery cables connecting the battery to the starter. while AC (alternating current) voltage can be transmitted along a relatively small cable without much voltage drop due to wire resistance, this is NOT true for DC (direct Current) which is what our batteries put out. Therefor it is imperative that with fairly long runs between the battery and starter as commonly seen in marine applications, the battery cables be sized properly. There are DC charts that will show the proper dia. cable depending on the length of the run and capacity to be transmitted. Check the internet. Since I was forced to deal with this issue now I decided to over size the cabeling for added insurance. I happened to have some red and black 2-0 high flex cable left over from a previous solar project, which was perfect for this application. To keep the voltage drop to an absolute minimum I opted to go with heavy duty coated copper POSTconnectors at the battery end. by using post connectors instead of the typical copper connectors for the threaded studs with wing nut, you get more mass and less potential for voltage drop at that point. I coated the wire with lithium grease before crimping the connector using a crimping tool used for making up new standing rigging for my sail boats. I then applied a thin coating of lithium grease to the outside of the connector and cable before heating the double wall shrink tubing to seal out moisture.
The battery was replaced with a multi purpose 27 series 1000 marine amp battery. FYI- CCA's are cold cranking amps which is rated at 0 degrees F. Marine amps is rated at 32 degrees F. You may think this is way overboard for such a small engine but diesels require a lot of torque to start easily and to have the torque you have to have plenty of capacity. So the whole exercise is to have the least amount of drop possible between the battery and starter. Paying close attention to battery capacity, correct cable sizing, and type of connectors used will do that. Oh, yes the job has resulted in the starter now being able to easily crank the engine with authority. The next step will be to replace the cracked plastic bleader screw on the top of the Racor filter. Apparently someone got a bit over zealous with torquing it in the past. I suspect I am having some air drawn into the fuel system causing part of the hard starting. I will keep you posted in hopes that this thread helps. Joe
 
😀 Sorry guys, I just realized that I left out an important note for the cable sizing issue to make sense for those not familiar with the world of electronics. AWG stands for american wire guage and the LARGER the no. the smaller the size or diameter. To put this in perspective, the #6 cable which I removed is about the diameter of the tip of the little finger on the avg. male. A 2-0, sometimes shown as 00, is about the size of the thumb joint of the avg. male. The larger the dia. the more material and less resistance to transmit the current. Hope this helps. Joe
 
Joe, I think you are saying your connectors are the automotive type, ie. the clamping kind around a tapered post. Your logic is correct, larger surface area-easier current flow. However, every place I read says that type of connector is a no no for marine use and won't pass a survey. It seems the vibration will cause the tapered connection to loosen.

Gene
 
😀 Hey Gene - interesting feedback. From a pure logical standpoint if you have more surface contact one would expect that it would be less likely to vibrate loose especially if the post surface has conciderably more surface friction than a copper lug being connected by a wing nut. Having said that, I am wide open to learning new things and would be most appreciative if you could guide me to your source re not passing a marine survey. This is the great thing about this forum- we get lots of opportunity to learn new things. Joe
 
I think I saw it in a PaassageMaker issue. I'll check and see. m/b in an article about the early Ranger 25s. I believe it's an ABYC no no.

Gene
 
Steve D'Antonio addresses battery wiring in his Gearhead column in the October issue of Passagemaker, as well as in a followup in the current - Jan/Feb - issue in Letters to the Editor.

colleysails
 
Hi Gene - Looked for Steve's article in Passagemaker and couldn't find it. I contacted him direct and have now heard back from him. Attached is his response which may offer some clarification re connector types. I find ABYC's section 10.8.3, shown below, very interesting. I wonder how many boat manufacturers are aware of this!!?? Joe


Hi Joe,
I’m not certain I’ve written specifically on that subject (but I will now!), of using post vs. flag vs. threaded stud battery terminal connections. I can’t speak for surveyors and what they consider “acceptable”, however, as far as the American Boat and Yacht Council Standards are concerned, there is no prohibition against using a post terminal, nor do I have such a prohibition, with caveats that follow.



Post terminals are common in marine applications, however, they are not as common as threaded stud or other fastener type connections, primarily because the flag and stud/fastener connections require no intervening mechanical components, thereby making them inherently more reliable. However, provided the conversion lug that allows a ring terminal to be used is secure then there should be no issue with voltage drop or unreliability.



Having said all that, when a post style battery is employed, my strong preference is for what’s known in the industry as a “military” style terminal conversion. This type of terminal relies solely on compression, using nuts and bolts that are perpendicular with the battery post, for ensuring low resistance, mechanically secure connections. Common clamp-style lugs often rely on a cast in place stud, a portion of which is in tension, that is parallel with the battery post. The weakness of this arrangement is the casting can fail when the post is torqued by a heavy side load, the kind often imparted by large battery cables. See attached photos of each variety.



Here’s an excerpt from ABYC section E-10, Storage Batteries, on battery terminal installation.



10.8 WIRING

10.8.1 Battery wiring shall conform to the Installation section of ABYC E-11, AC and DC Electrical Systems On

Boats.

10.8.2 Connectors to battery terminals shall be made with fitted connectors providing secure mechanical and

electrical connections as required in the Wiring Connections’ section of ABYC E-11, AC and DC Electrical Systems

On Boats. Spring clips or temporary clamps shall not be used.

NOTE: A soldered connection that joins a battery terminal connector to a conductor may be used as the sole

means of mechanical connection if the length of the soldered joint is at least 1.5 times the diameter of the

stranded portion of the battery conductor. See Figure 2.

10.8.3 Battery cables and other conductors size 6 AWG (13.3 mm²) and larger shall not be connected to the battery

with wing nuts.

10.8.4 Multiple conductors connected to a battery shall be installed with the highest ampacity conductor terminal

closest to the battery, followed by successively smaller ampacity conductor terminals.

10.8.4.1 A maximum of four conductor terminals shall be permitted to be installed on a single battery stud.

10.8.5 Flat washers, if used, shall only be installed immediately under the split lock washer and nut of the

attachment stud.



Sincerely,



Steve D'Antonio

Technical Editor

PassageMaker Magazine

http://www.passagemaker.com/

(Remote office)

PO Box 111

160 Carlton Rd.

Wake, VA 23176-0111
 
Don't you just love this forum? 😀 I'm always learning something new. Thanks guys!

Gene
 
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