batteries

[forster08]

I enjoy a 2014 R27 Tug with a 200 Volvo Penta 200
I would like to replace all 4 batteries
Any suggestions
Thanks Hans
forster08@yahoo.com

 

[knotflying]

You just opened up a topic with lots of opinions. For me I use flooded Walmart batteries and change them out every three years no matter what. At that exchange rate it will take 9 years to break even with AGM. There is many a thing that can happen to destroy a battery, no matter what type. Would you want to replace a costly AGM or a $90.00 Walmart with a one year full replacement guarantee? I check the water level every three months. AGM has its applications especially when the battery has to be placed on its side, but for an R-27 with fairly easy access, I would go flooded.

 

[captstu]

As so often happens, I agree with Knot. My $89 Walmart batteries are completing their third year and will be changed out in March. The only exception is the thruster battery where I will use the higher end sealed Walmart battery because I relocated it forward under the V for Better balance.

 

[Cutwater28GG]

im in the other camp and use the universal AGM's. $200 each.

I got about 5 years from the first set. I chose to continue to use that type as I changed the engine start last year and did the house and thruster this year.

I bought mine on Amazon shipped for free.

you can't mix chemistry with the chargers so pick the same type for all.

if I had a clean slate I would be tempted by li on, but they are still super expensive. but it would help with the port list moving to lighter Lithium ions!

 

[captstu]

I moved the two house batteries from the port to the starboard side, the thruster battery from the port side to the starboard side of the bow and left the engine start battery where it is. The boat is now well-balanced both port to starboard and fore and aft. Nearly no trim differential required.

 

[nzfisher]

im in the other camp and use the universal AGM's. $200 each.

I got about 5 years from the first set. I chose to continue to use that type as I changed the engine start last year and did the house and thruster this year.

I bought mine on Amazon shipped for free.

you can't mix chemistry with the chargers so pick the same type for all.

if I had a clean slate I would be tempted by li on, but they are still super expensive. but it would help with the port list moving to lighter Lithium ions!

I don’t think li is certified in boats for anything other than mood balancing so ask your insurance company before buying.

 

[S@LTD]

Another alternative is one I have been following and when the time comes will consider-the Firefly Oasis Battery. These are about double the price of an AGM but no where near the price of Lithium and they allow for up to 80% depth of charge and more cycles. For those who anchor out a lot it might be a better alternative. They can be left in a partial state of charge without risk of sulfation.

 

[knotflying]

They are impressive. When one thinks about it though, battery type is really not as important as energy management. No matter what type battery you have if you use too much amperage it gets depleted and no matter what battery type you have it's dead in the water. So perhaps one may want to look at battery type as an insurance policy against having to replace your battery. What is the price one is willing to pay for the insurance? Granted, sealed, AGM and other technologies have other advantages, primarily maintenance and placement needs. Soooo, when one buys insurance usually the cost of the insurance is less than the cost of the product purchased. I can't reconcile that with the battery type alternatives. If there was a warranty term with a declining replacement cost over a period of time I could see some value.
I know many a person who inadvertently destroyed their AGM's. I would rather shell out $90.00 rather than $275.00 for AGM or $486.00 for the Firefly. If one could guarantee that and AGM would last 9 years with a declining trade in value if it fails then I could reconcile the cost. Until then I will go with the $90.00 Walmart and switch them out every three years.

 

[Cutwater28GG]

Wise words.
Alas I wasnt in a position to swap all batteries as some were newer and not end of life. Therefore I decided to stay with the same chemistry, perhaps next round I will make the change

 

[Larry H]

knotflying,

Could you post the name or model number of that Walmart battery? There are a lot of batteries on the Walmart website.

Thanks,

 

[TexasEye]

I wish all the batteries were on the Starboard side. Way too much weight on the Port. Especially since we use the cave for storage. R25 Classic

 

[S@LTD]

Certainly cannot argue with Knotflying’s well thought out rationale from a cost perspective. Thankfully I have some time before being faced with the decision to go this route. What has caught my eye about these is the ability to go to 80% discharge without damage vs. 50%. With 2 batteries that effectively provides the equivalent of a third battery from a capacity perspective before recharging is necessary. Recharging is supposed to be much faster as well and they do not require recharging to 100% without losing permanent capacity over time.

If I can avoid having to add the weight of another battery and reduce recharge time that is appealing. We anchor out for multiple days so I am hoping this might help minimize listening to an engine or generator run and these batteries seem to have proven to be pretty tough with 1200 cycles, can withstand a 100% discharge should it occur. Certainly not trying to sell folks on these and they are a spendy proposition for sure. The few I know who have them are very happy and feel the convenience for some may be worth the cost depending upon how they use (or abuse) their batteries.

 

[captstu]

I moved 2 house batteries to the starboard side and moved the thruster battery to the starboard bow. Boat trims flatter.


Stuart Bell
Ranger 25: Shearwater
(561) 352-1796

 

[knotflying]

knotflying,

Could you post the name or model number of that Walmart battery? There are a lot of batteries on the Walmart website.

Thanks,

Here is the link. It is a group 27 dual purpose - 12 volt deep cycle Flooded. https://www.walmart.com/ip/EverStart-27DC-Marine-RV-Deep-Cycle-Battery/164242687 Same type battery is available at Napa and O'Riely, the cost is a little more. And by the way, Johnson Controls, one of the largest battery manufacturers makes the Walmart battery. They come with a one year replacement warranty and with my changing cycle of three years, I never have had an issue.

 

[Larry H]

knotflying,

Thanks for the link.

Do you also use that battery for engine start and the thrusters?

 

[Wildcats]

Cost is certainly an issue. The AGMs are expensive but having used Concorde Lifeline AGMs for many years I would pony up the extra cost. I intend to replace them with the Concorde batteries when the Universal AGMs on our R31 wear out. The R31 has limited access to the batteries and I am too lazy to try and access them every few months to put water in them. I also have some trepidation about putting flooded batteries in an enclosed compartment like the lazarettes on the R31. We bought this boat used and like many Ranger Tugs it comes with a solar panel. The Morningstar charge control is mounted in the starboard side lazarette. I noted in the Morningstar manual for the Sun Saver Duo charge controller that they warn " Never install the SunSaver Duo in a sealed enclosure with vented (flooded) batteries! Do not install in a confined area where battery gasses can accumulate. Risk of explosion!". The inverter/battery charger (ProMariner) is installed in the port side lazarette and the manual prominently mentions that it is not ignition protected. I guess for myself, since the AGM batteries don't vent hydrogen that I would rather fork out the extra money for the safety and convenience they offer. My last Concorde Lifeline 4D battery on my previous boat lasted 10 years, but I did try to make sure that it never got below 50% depth of charge. For those using flooded batteries, what has been your experience and do you feel the risk of hydrogen is over rated?

 

[captstu]

Both gel and agm batteries release hydrogen during charging. Most agm and gel batteries are pressurized slightly during charge and store the hydrogen to recombine and produce water. Eventually sealed batteries run dry.

All batteries heat slightly during charge. Overcharging or to rapid charging caused by a shorted cell can release substantial hydrogen, heat and as the battery nears failure, hydrogen sulfide.

All battery compartments should be vented.


Stuart Bell
Ranger 25: Shearwater
(561) 352-1796

 

[knotflying]

knotflying,

Thanks for the link.

Do you also use that battery for engine start and the thrusters?

Yes

 

[knotflying]

Cost is certainly an issue. The AGMs are expensive but having used Concorde Lifeline AGMs for many years I would pony up the extra cost. I intend to replace them with the Concorde batteries when the Universal AGMs on our R31 wear out. The R31 has limited access to the batteries and I am too lazy to try and access them every few months to put water in them. I also have some trepidation about putting flooded batteries in an enclosed compartment like the lazarettes on the R31. We bought this boat used and like many Ranger Tugs it comes with a solar panel. The Morningstar charge control is mounted in the starboard side lazarette. I noted in the Morningstar manual for the Sun Saver Duo charge controller that they warn " Never install the SunSaver Duo in a sealed enclosure with vented (flooded) batteries! Do not install in a confined area where battery gasses can accumulate. Risk of explosion!". The inverter/battery charger (ProMariner) is installed in the port side lazarette and the manual prominently mentions that it is not ignition protected. I guess for myself, since the AGM batteries don't vent hydrogen that I would rather fork out the extra money for the safety and convenience they offer. My last Concorde Lifeline 4D battery on my previous boat lasted 10 years, but I did try to make sure that it never got below 50% depth of charge. For those using flooded batteries, what has been your experience and do you feel the risk of hydrogen is over rated?

As I said, AGM have an application in tight areas or areas that are difficult to access. As far as explosion, our battery compartments are far from air tight and I think there is plenty of air flow and the chance of explosion a negligible concern. There is no definitive right or wrong with batteries. It is a matter of application and personal preference. My point is AMP storage is AMP storage and no matter what battery you have it will discharge and energy management is critical. The AGM will take more abuse than flooded, but I have seen them bite the dust much sooner than five years.