Batteries

[ireilly]

I recently bought an R27 which had 119 hours on the engine. The batteries were AGM type. I recently experienced a dead engine battery. I also noticed the house batteries were low. My assumption was they needed charging. Unfortunately upon testing they would not hold charge neither as a battery bank nor as individual batteries.
My question is how long should marine batteries last? Realize there are a lot of variables but was wondering what other owners experience with their batteries. Is there any experience out there where all the batteries become non functional at the same time? If so, what seemed to be cause/issue(s)?

 

[tuggertoy]

It would be helpful to know the year of manufacture and the region of origin of your tug. It would also be helpful to know how long your vessel was out of service before you purchased it. There are many factors that affect battery life or lack there of.

Eric
Tugger Toy
2006 R-21 Classic

 

[LADYBUG TOO]

We have a 2009 R-29 with Start and Thruster batteries and 4 House batteries. The House batteries are original so over five years old. The original Start and Thruster batteries were destroyed by a lightning strike. These are lead/acid Nautilus Group 27 batteries. The start and Thruster are XXHD 27's at 1000 cold crank amps. We expect about 5 years out of them. That being said, maintenance and use are everything. If your batteries were allowed to completely discharge for a long period of time then recovery isn't a sure thing. Being AGM you don't have the water worry we have but I still think five years is reasonable. We will probably have to replace the house batteries this next summer. Our record for our old boat was nine years but it did not have much of a load.

Pat
Ladybug, Too

 

[LADYBUG TOO]

Oops!

I forgot to mention that you should not mix batteries in parallel that are not of the same age, preferably they should be from the same lot. One bad apple can spoil the whole lot. Also understand the function of your combining relays if you have them. They let all banks charge from the alternator at the same time but will also isolate a damaged battery bank.

Pat,
Ladybug, Too

 

[ireilly]

Thanks for the quick response. The boat was manufactured in 2012 so the batteries are less than 30 months old. I'm not sure how long the boat was not used before I bought it. I bought it in Nov 2014 and have put 20 hours on it since then. At no time did the batteries not charge or show low voltage.
The one factor that is different is I had a Mase 2.7 KW generator installed in Dec. The next time i tried to use the boat, the batteries were showing low voltage. Since none of the batteries will hold charge, I'm trying to ascertain the cause.
Is there a single point of failure that would cause all the batteries to fail in the same time frame? Is 30 months typical for battery life? Could the installation of the generator cause battery failure?
The tester stated "charged all four batteries completely, and then load tested……. And all 4 of them dropped! They are all testing bad. As odd as this is, it just is the case here. There is a VSR (voltage sensitive relay) that comes off of the battery charger in this boat. It will come on / open and combine all batteries when the charge is up, but as soon as any of them start to fail, it isolates that certain battery. After charging the batteries fully….as soon as we take off the charge and test….. it closes (VSR) and all of the lights come on. Each battery then also tested bad individually as well."
I realize I have to replace the batteries but I want to make sure I understand why they failed all at the same time.

 

[Favunclerich]

What brand were your failed batteries?

 

[Levitation]

You need someone who understands battery systems and ACR's and generators to see if the installers have caused a short in the wiring. Based on what you have posted I am suspicious of an error.
Also the batteries need to be removed, watered, individually slow charged for 24 hours, and then load tested. They may well be bad Now but it remains to be proven. If they have been deeply discharged they can be ruined rather quickly. AGM tend to be less tolerant of abuse. The flooded cell battery still is the best solution for marine use, at least in my experience.

Edit, I now see the AGM. FORGET THE WATERING 🙂

 

[Pilotnavigator]

There is a good demo on the Optima AGM web site on restoring so called flat batteries. They need a special AGM charger and they say they can bring back dead batteries. You will have to address each battery seperately. Check out the video on their site it may help address your issues. Then you should have a DC amp CLAMP meter. (around $150) Use it to check the current on any line. WIth all systems off the current from the battery lines should be close to zero.
Hope this gives you some directions to follow.

 

[ireilly]

Thanks you all for the great info. They are Optima batteries. I will attempt to use the method supplied in the video. Will let you know the results.

 

[NewMoon]

Good luck reviving the Optimas, but:

If you wind up replacing them, consider that other AGM's make much better house batteries. I've had great service from Optimas as starters in my diesel boat (7 years) and my Cummins truck (10 years). They have lots of cranking amps, but they don't have the amp-hours per pound, or per $, that my group31 AGM house bank batts have. Got 11 years from Deka g31 house batts, and now have Sears Platinum g31 AGM's.

 

[baz]

...snip...
My question is how long should marine batteries last?...snip...

As you have no clue how the existing batteries have been maintained and how long they may have been left 'high and dry' without being kept charged I would IMO replace all of them and start anew.

My batteries are the Ranger stock batteries and came with our R-25 in late 2009. They are flooded cell batteries and I check liquid levels at least twice a year. They have had little need for topping up, although one time I had to use a whole gallon of distilled water to top up all the cells. I still have these batteries after some 5 and half years and they are in good condition still. Our R-25 is located in the PNW and kept in the water year round. When docked the battery charger is always on.

 

[knotflying]

AGM batteries do not have a time element related to their longevity, but rather a number of discharge cycles that they experience. If they are not holding their charge there could be several reasons why the batteries are shot. Anywhere from poor care by the original owner to a parasitic draw. If you get new batteries watch carefully to make sure there are no underlying issues causing them to go dead. With that said, I am a proponent of flooded. AGM's are great if you need to place them on their sides for install purposes and they are maintenance free. However, that comes with a cost. I buy flooded Deep Cycle at Walmart for about $85.00 each and replace them every 3 years regardless of how well they are doing. It will take about 9 years to break even with the purchase of AGM's and that is if your AGM's can last 9 years.

 

[tugnnaweigh]

I had the same experience with similar vintage AGMs on a newly purchased used boat. I went at it two ways over 12 months including having the battery's tested after each "fix" and after initially confirming no parasitic draw. I first confirmed the charging system (what's put in) was doing its job and then focused on the batteries themselves. (do they take/hold charge and maintain voltage during/after each draw which is typically how they are tested)

Charging system was 20 amps, confirmed 20 amp output and changed the "button" on it to the one giving it the "AGM charging profile." Seemed like that was all there was to be done on the charging side.

As for the testing the batteries underwent; every time they were removed and taken to Sears two of the batteries would test good and the other two needed the 24 hour charge to test good. Put the two that needed the charge on house duty, better two on start and thruster. Still had problems.

Charger quit, it had been working pretty hard trying to keep charge levels up. Went to the 40 amp charger per charger factory recommendation and it having a conditioning cycle, hoped this might help get the remaining life out the the batteries. But still had the same problems and I'd pop a 30 amp service at the dock with the 40 amp charger!

Broke Out Another Thousand to replace the batteries and problems disappeared and capabilities increased! No more dim lights, thruster slowdown, (I did and do have the thruster bat connected to house batts) no start conditions, nothing but fun and confidence! Well worth it!

Lesson I learned: Batteries at the end of their life can work a charger hard, shortening the life of the charger.

Trick I learned: Put your built in battery voltage meter on Bank 1 and watch it as the starter is spinning, this is the voltage present during this all important time and is valuable information as to the present capability of that battery.

Oh, and the BOAT acronym cures problems with canvas and trailers and propellers too, don't ask me how I know!

 

[ireilly]

Thanks to all for your replies. Like the last post, I've isolated the issue to the charger which was not configured correctly. Seems as if it had been overcharging thus shortening the batteries life span. Whether this is really the issue is yet to be proven, but is the best explanation so far. After doing research and checking the configuration of the charger, I found it wasn't configured as it should have been. I recommend that just as a precaution you check to see that the charger and batteries are in sync.
Regards,

 

[trailertrawlerkismet]

I just changed out our AGM's for 4 Flooded Everstart 27DCM and in doing so changed the setting on our Promariner Charger to the flooded setting. I emailed Kenny at Ranger Tugs and asked if there was anything else that I needed to do, as a precaution. Kenny asked if we had a solar panel, which we do. The solar panel has a "Sunsaver" device mounted in our battery compartment that has 5 settings. The number 1 and 2 settings refer to the battery type and I had to also change those to flooded from sealed......so if you do have a solar panel you'll need to check these settings out as well. For more info check your "Sunsaver Manual" and if you don't have one I've tried to attach a copy here.

Morninstar sunsaver due manual.pdf

Jim

 

[wefings]

Jim , that device is the charge regulator for the solar and the way they have been wired from the factory is in 2 banks of output with 10% charge to the engine start bank and 90% to the house bank . It definitely needs to be configured for the type of batteries currently in the system .
Marc