Bilge Pump in Ranger 21 EC

[harley]

I have a Ranger 21 EC year 2010. My bilge pump runs fine BUT when the bilge is empty the pump stays on....and on...pretty much till burns out the fuse or I take fuse out. If i put fuse back in the pump stays off till the next water event triggers the switch. So...the switch works to turn pump on but does not turn it off.
Up till now I have only had bilge pumps with the float/lever which you could check for operation or an obstruction easily.
This appears to be a electrical contact pump..the switch detects actual water instead of the rise in water like my old Rule switch.

My questions:
1. Its pretty hard to see the pump...what model is it? It has built in/attached water switch. It is not a Rule.
2. What could be causing contacts to stay in contact, but reset fine when I pull and replace fuse to pump?
3. Is there a way to check this out" or is it sealed...and should I just replace both pump and switch and keep old one as backup?....Thus the desire to know the model.

Thanks in advance,
Harley

 

[Newf]

Hi Harley, Hard to say for sure what type of pump you have but it sounds like it may be a Johnson. There's lots of posts on here regarding these pumps.

I have a Johnson 750GPH on my 2014 21EC and have encountered the same thing you describe several times. On most occasions a good cleaning of the sensor that's mounted on the side of the pump will do the trick. There are 2 little circle buttons on the face of the sensor that can be cleaned. These get gummed up with crap sometimes and cause what you are describing. I also had one occasion where the sensor was burnt out and had to be replaced. The sensor just slips down over a clip mounted at the base of the pump and is easy to remove if you have to replace it. Just pull it straight up if I remember correctly.

On mine, switching the pump on and off manually at the switch at the helm will also stop it..

 

[Kevin Lamont]

I have a Ranger 21 EC year 2010. My bilge pump runs fine BUT when the bilge is empty the pump stays on....and on...pretty much till burns out the fuse or I take fuse out. If i put fuse back in the pump stays off till the next water event triggers the switch. So...the switch works to turn pump on but does not turn it off.
Up till now I have only had bilge pumps with the float/lever which you could check for operation or an obstruction easily.
This appears to be a electrical contact pump..the switch detects actual water instead of the rise in water like my old Rule switch.

My questions:
1. Its pretty hard to see the pump...what model is it? It has built in/attached water switch. It is not a Rule.
2. What could be causing contacts to stay in contact, but reset fine when I pull and replace fuse to pump?
3. Is there a way to check this out" or is it sealed...and should I just replace both pump and switch and keep old one as backup?....Thus the desire to know the model.

Thanks in advance,
Harley

Hey Harley,

From what you are describing the poster above is correct, I would start with cleaning the face of the sensor. This doesn't require any special cleaner or anything like that just a rag to wipe the face, if it is especially dirty you can then use some sort of mild cleaner. Also if you need parts you can purchase from us direct via email at parts@rangertugs.com. Hope this helps!!

Thanks,

 

[harley]

Hi Harley, Hard to say for sure what type of pump you have but it sounds like it may be a Johnson. There's lots of posts on here regarding these pumps.

I have a Johnson 750GPH on my 2014 21EC and have encountered the same thing you describe several times. On most occasions a good cleaning of the sensor that's mounted on the side of the pump will do the trick. There are 2 little circle buttons on the face of the sensor that can be cleaned. These get gummed up with crap sometimes and cause what you are describing. I also had one occasion where the sensor was burnt out and had to be replaced. The sensor just slips down over a clip mounted at the base of the pump and is easy to remove if you have to replace it. Just pull it straight up if I remember correctly.

On mine, switching the pump on and off manually at the switch at the helm will also stop it..

Thank you for that....I did not think of the panel switch....my first fuse got so hot it melted the case a bit, but did not pop the fuse (5 amp). That took about 5-10 minutes of constant running. I will pull pump and check switch and likely order new pump to install and keep this one as a backup. It might be good to put some long wires with alligator clips and a long discharge hose to use as a backup that can be dropped into the bulge if needed.

 

[Newf]

Hi Harley
I had that same situation with the fuse melting when I was cruising and didn't hear the pump cut in. The smell of melting plastic was my first indicator. If you look in my photo album you will see photos of a partially melted pump, pump housing and burnt sensor. The photos are distorted for some reason but good enough to show the condition of the components after I removed them. The sensor is a sealed unit but I cut it open to see if it had shorted out.

In the same album there is a wiring schematic of an indicator light installation. I did this on mine and it has more than once shown me when the pump has come on and stayed on. If it stays on more than 20 seconds I flick the switch at the helm and it shuts off. I then clean the sensor on the pump and I'm good to go. Obviously this only works if you are on the boat at the time the light comes on. If your boat is in a slip and it comes on and stays on while you are away from the boat, having a light won't help much but for running, it's great.

I've thought of doing as you mentioned and wiring up a spare with clips and a hose that you can drop in if needed. Some folks have installed a second one below the opening that's in front of the engine.

 

[harley]

Newf,

Thanks for the tips. I pulled the switch up and cleaned it and all good now....for now. It had a layer of gooey all over it and I cleaned with alcohol. Tested a few cycles and it shuts off normally.
I am still ordering that Auto Johnson pump (750 gph) to have as a backup....only about $60.
I am thinking it is being discontinued as it is not available many places. The Ranger factory recommends a low profile replacement Johnson 750 GPH.

I am hoping I can get the old pump in and out without removing the shaft. It looks tight.

 

[harley]

My pump finally burned up. Fisheries Supply in Seattle still has the original Johnson 750 GPH with auto switch ($60). It is about the only pump you can get that you can squeeze (and it must be pushed hard) between the shaft and hull to get it removed and installed. I intend to add a second pump forward in the engine in the hatch that accesses the raw water intake thru-hull. Anyone else do that? I could use a different brand or style pump there, but might as well use the Johnson so I can keep one spare for the two locations. Where would be the best location to run the discharge thru-hull?

I did not know the Ranger 21Ec did not have a self draining cockpit (well it drains, but into the bilge). I only need one day of rain and a dead battery or bad pump to fill the boat to where the engine is going under. I guess two bilge pumps is
about the only way to help this situation out.

Harley

 

[bob daily]

Harley, if installing a second bilge pump in the area of the raw water intake area I would look at using the drain for the sink as a discharge for the pump. There should be enough space to run the discharge hose to under the sink and tap into the drain. That way you will not have to install another hull cut/fitting. Good luck Bob

 

[harley]

Harley, if installing a second bilge pump in the area of the raw water intake area I would look at using the drain for the sink as a discharge for the pump. There should be enough space to run the discharge hose to under the sink and tap into the drain. That way you will not have to install another hull cut/fitting. Good luck Bob

Would I need a check valve or just a loop. How do you keep the sink draining and the pump output from affecting each other?

 

[Mastercraft]

I have an R29 2017 with a Johnson pump. It would not shut off sometimes and I “pressure washed” it with the sea water wash down hose .... it works now. I also took the pump cartridge out. The manufacturer label came off inside the pump and partially plugged outlet hose. I have no idea why they would stick a label on inside of pump. Also, the impeller is very small and had junk on it.

 

[bob daily]

Harley, Your sink gravity drains, yes a check valve in your pump discharge or a loop so it will be above the sink drain either one will work! Best of luck Bob

 

[ohioan55]

I installed a second pump as well in the bilge forward of the engine. I ran the discharge to the sink drain and placed a 3 position switch for in beneath the sink. I also powered this second pump off of the AC battery bank. I'm just paranoid as I have vivid memories of an R-21ec I was looking at that had a lot of water in. It was about 5-6" deep above the deck, battery was dead, and shore power had been shut off. Not sure how that boat was set up, but I did try to get the boat pump out. So, with that in mind, I added backups on my boat. Primary pump runs off of house battery, secondary pump runs off of the AC batteries, and I clean and test both pumps every spring. I have pictures in my album,

 

[GaylesFaerie]

That melted bilge pump looks like it generated a lot of heat and could be quite dangerous. I would think the fuse should have melted open first and stopped the flow of electricity but apparently it didn't. It appears the blade fuse used is red in color which would be 10 amps I think. Is that the correct size for the pump? or should be it 5? Gary

 

[Newf]

Hi Gary, Yes, my paperwork on the pump shows it as requiring a 5A fuse. The boat was bought new so the fuse that melted was the one that was there when I bought it. Color coding shows it as a 10A as you said, so probably a mistake on someone's part. Glad I was on board when it happened so no harm other than requiring a new pump, sensor and some wiring.

 

[harley]

That melted bilge pump looks like it generated a lot of heat and could be quite dangerous. I would think the fuse should have melted open first and stopped the flow of electricity but apparently it didn't. It appears the blade fuse used is red in color which would be 10 amps I think. Is that the correct size for the pump? or should be it 5? Gary

The Johnson 750 GPH specifies a five amp fuse.
My fuse blew after pump seized. But it did blow.


Harley

 

[harley]

I installed a second pump as well in the bilge forward of the engine. I ran the discharge to the sink drain and placed a 3 position switch for in beneath the sink. I also powered this second pump off of the AC battery bank. I'm just paranoid as I have vivid memories of an R-21ec I was looking at that had a lot of water in. It was about 5-6" deep above the deck, battery was dead, and shore power had been shut off. Not sure how that boat was set up, but I did try to get the boat pump out. So, with that in mind, I added backups on my boat. Primary pump runs off of house battery, secondary pump runs off of the AC batteries, and I clean and test both pumps every spring. I have pictures in my album,

I am going to add second pump. Any chance you have photo, a parts list or diagram of the plumbing method? I am ok on the electrics. Just wondering how you tied the pump and sink together.
Thanks,
Harley