Boat Identification

American Flyer

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2022
Messages
168
Fluid Motion Model
R-29 CB
Vessel Name
American Flyer
Ok, I may be nit picking, and no one seems to be enforcing it anyway, BUT……..

I see a LOT of boats out there, and posted here, that are not marked in a legal fashion!

If your boat has a current USCG vessel documentation certificate, it is required to display the name and hailing port in a fashion as described in CFR 46. HOWEVER, it may NOT also display the WN registration number!

How many documented boats out there are displaying both? That is not legal!

I am sure some boats that have both are simply state registered. In that case only the WN number is required, but I do not see a prohibition against naming your boat, thus, it appears you are legal. But if the boat is USCG Documented, it may not display the WN number, only the required name and port.

FEDERAL REGULATION
Documented vessels do not display their official numbers on the outside of the hull, but are identified by the name and hailing port.
(Source; maritimedocumentation.us)

(Although this could be read as referring to the USCG numbers, the State of Washington clarifies below.)

STATE REGULATION
Documented vessels.
Federal regulations prohibit the display of the WN registration number on vessels documented with the U.S. Coast Guard.
(Source; dol.wa.gov)

I think a lot of boats need to be getting out the eraser!
 
Channel Surfing is USCG documented.

In addition to being USCG documented I still have to register my boat with the state of Washington. I pay the same state registration fee, but the state does NOT issue me WN numbers. They just cash my check and give me a yearly sticker (2023). The annual sticker needs to be displayed, but not WN numbers.

On my state registration (WA State), in the field (on your state registration paperwork) that would normally have WN numbers, the state of WA uses this field for the USCG documentation number.

I'd nit-pick on boats that don't have a boat name. Boats need names, even if they're state registered and don't have USCG documentation. It's part of boating. Use the name for marina reservations, for hailing over the radio... Boat names are important, USCG documented or not. 🙂
 
My R29 is not a documented vessel, but wondering how anyone would know? I suppose if the USCG boarded me and asked I would of course answer truthfully, but other than a legal technicality I’m not sure the harm here.
 
I don't know about in Washington, but here in Virginia Beach I get boarded by the Coast Guard at least once a year and they can inspect you twice a year - and have several times. First thing they ask for is the boat registration. When I had a documented boat, I had to show them where I had permanently attached the numbers. My current boat is state registered and they look for the state registration documentation and numbers on the hull.

I'm just grateful they check the boat as I might have overlooked something. One time I was checked in the morning and another USCG unit tried to check me around 10pm that night. I assume they have a quota to fill when out doing checks.
 
My experience has been that if the boat is documented there is no state title and you still have to get a state sticker that I usually displayed on my side windows. Interestingly most states require a registration if you are there for a prescribed period of time. This can be different by state. Florida calls it a sojourner's permit. It is very difficult for a state to actually keep track as to how long you are there. However, I have heard of diligent harbormasters keeping track and issuing violations. When a boat is documented it is technically advisable to also register with a state. I have heard that some states can be very particular about this. As an example, Michigan has been known to pull over a boat with no registration sticker and claim it as being bought in Michigan unless you can prove paying sales tax somewhere else. Let's face it many people document to avoid sales tax. Rhode Island has no sales tax on boats. Anyone remember the big issue when John Kerry registered his boat in Rhode Island? Under public pressure he eventually registered it in his home state. I was documented and registered in Charlestown, RI, my home port, and also registered as a sojourner in Florida. Home port and boat name were the legal size on the stern. I looked at the cost as my fee to pay to play in two great areas for cruising.
 
The bridge tenders up and down the AICW generally know how long you’ve been in the state…. at least if you are moving.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Dragon Lady is USCG documented fully compliant vessel, she displays 3 stickers - DTOPS, WA State parks moorage permit, and the annual WA state sticker. Already running out of real estate, need to clean up/remove 2021/2022 stickers to make space for the next round 😀
+1 on Martin's point about boat names, could be a safety issue as well.
 
gswearin":3dbu6jyt said:
My R29 is not a documented vessel, but wondering how anyone would know? I suppose if the USCG boarded me and asked I would of course answer truthfully, but other than a legal technicality I’m not sure the harm here.

(One reason) the state registration is insufficient is if you're going north of the border. Under some weirder technicalities of maritime law, without USCG registration your boat is theoretically unflagged. Australia, for example, has only state-based titling of vessels but keeps a separate non-title-based national marine registration system to appropriately give Australian boaters cover of the Australian flag. WA title may (emphasis on may) be insufficient to prove ownership in an international maritime tribunal. I've had a marine insurance policy that explicitly required my boat to be documented for international travel.

How has your experience clearing Canadian customs been (or are you just not traveling that way?). Besides lender and insurance requirements to be documented, I've always kept my boats documented because it supposedly makes international travel easier. I've heard stories on the dock, but have not witnessed, boaters being hassled by Canadian customers for merely being state registered and not documented.
 
gswearin":2nytqwr3 said:
My R29 is not a documented vessel, but wondering how anyone would know? I suppose if the USCG boarded me and asked I would of course answer truthfully, but other than a legal technicality I’m not sure the harm here.

I’m pretty sure the documentation number needs to be displayed somewhere inside the boat. Also, if boarded, don’t you need to have paperwork handy?

I’m current waiting for documentation to be processed. I have my old state registration number on the boat but that will come off as soon as I can find someone to do the vinyl work for me. Meanwhile, I have all kinds of documentation on board in case there’s an issue with the CG.
 
mlanger":ialwk2cl said:
I’m pretty sure the documentation number needs to be displayed somewhere inside the boat. Also, if boarded, don’t you need to have paperwork handy?

I’m current waiting for documentation to be processed. I have my old state registration number on the boat but that will come off as soon as I can find someone to do the vinyl work for me. Meanwhile, I have all kinds of documentation on board in case there’s an issue with the CG.

The Document number needs to be permanently adhered to the boat. I installed mine in the V-berth in the storage locker under the cushion on the port side. I used the typical vinyl numbers that you use on the hull and then mixed up some clear epoxy so it was rather stiff and then brushed it over the numbers. The objective is that the numbers can't be removed and destroyed if there is an attempt. Anytime I had an inspection they never asked to see them, but definitely wanted to see the paperwork. By the way, getting a voluntary inspection by the Axillary or Power Squadron will most likely prevent a Coast Guard boarding at an inconvenient time. A few times when the Coast Guard wanted to board I just pointed to my sticker and they left. Also having the inspection voluntarily avoids a fine if you fail. It gives you the ability to correct you issue and then you can get re-inspected.
 
46 USC 123, Numbering undocumented vessels

Requires and recognizes state numbering. This may suffice for the foreign registration requirements. Just my conjecture.

§ 67.121 Official number marking requirement.

The official number of the vessel, preceded by the abbreviation “NO.” must be marked in block-type Arabic numerals not less than three inches in height on some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull. The number must be permanently affixed to the vessel so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious. If the official number is on a separate plate, the plate must be fastened in such a manner that its removal would normally cause some scarring of or damage to the surrounding hull area.

I would not define “in a storage locker under the cushion” as clearly visible. But that’s just my opinion.
 
American Flyer":3jpowojj said:
I would not define “in a storage locker under the cushion” as clearly visible. But that’s just my opinion.

My documentation plaque is in the center cockpit lazarette (you have to open the center hatch), and it's behind my house battery bank with about 2" of space to see behind. I've passed a USCG safety inspection where they've actually looked at the plaque.

To find a more "clearly visible" spot I'd either need a bigger boat or the USCG would need to lessen their requirements on the 3" tall lettering.
 
“To find a more "clearly visible" spot I'd either need a bigger boat or the USCG would need to lessen their requirements on the 3" tall lettering.”

:lol: Sounds like a good excuse for a bigger boat if you can convince LaZina!
 
American Flyer":210p8gpj said:
I would not define “in a storage locker under the cushion” as clearly visible. But that’s just my opinion.

It is. The issue isn't that it's visible without moving stuff, but whether you would need to climb up under the superstructure of the hull. A "non-clearly visible" place on our Tugs might be light between two bulkheads where you'd need a fiber optic scope to see it without cutting into the fiberglass...
 
American Flyer":24pphq1r said:
“To find a more "clearly visible" spot I'd either need a bigger boat or the USCG would need to lessen their requirements on the 3" tall lettering.”

:lol: Sounds like a good excuse for a bigger boat if you can convince LaZina!

Ha! If only it were that easy. The boat would also have to be fast. Maybe one day RT will hang a pair of Yamaha F300's on the back of an RT29. Throw in the DES (electric steering from Yamaha), add helm-master (joystick) control... that would have my attention. 🙂
 
In Ohio we don't receive "OH" numbers for our documented boats. We do still have to display our state registration sticker.

You can't avoid paying tax either. Our marina's are required to report all document boats that dock in them to the state. Two years after I bought my boat in MI, paid MI tax and the additional .75% for the county I documented as my Port Of Call the state sent me a letter requiring me to prove I paid sales tax.

I get inspected by the local Coast Guard Aux every year. On Lake Erie around the Islands, Sandusky and Port Clinton the Coast Guard has so many boats to pull over that are clearly violating some law we have never been stopped for an inspection.

My wife did get a thumbs up from a CG cutter after handling some rogue waves entering the Huron river one day. Had not been inspected yet that year and they followed us down river and did not stop us.
 
My Cutwater is documented. One challenge for me was to ensure the name and port were visible when carrying my dingy on the swimstep. I eventually put the name and port on the bottom of the dingy hull.

I really wasn't sure how this would hold up, especially as I beach the dingy quite often. On this Highfield I have, it seems to out OK. The strakes on the bottom of the hull protect the lettering. We have mostly sand beaches in my area. Not sure what would happen if the shores were rockier. I don't use the dingy sling anymore as the Highfield has lots of attachment points.

Here's a view of the dingy bottom after a year of use:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AoG2wfcivrbZrhXwJGk ... V?e=uVTMRg

So far, so good.

-martin610
 
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