Boat insurance and lithium

[Evguy1]

I need to replace my house batteries and wanted to go lithium. I asked my insurance company if there was any issue in doing that, pleading ignorance does not work with insurance companies if you have a claim. This is what they sent me which looks like its a NO GO on upgrading.
Anyone else have this issue?

 

[NautiTug]

what insurance company was this?

 

[az9133bm]

Thanks for bringing this topic to the forefront.

We have Progressive Insurance and we recently hired Grant Wilson (FreedomVanGo of Jacksonville FL and ABYC professional installer) install Epoch LifePO4 batteries and Victron BMS on our boat.

We talked directly to an underwriter at Progressive (after 20 minutes of "...that's a good question, let me get you to..."). We confirmed that physical losses and liabilities CAUSED by our installation would CURRENTLY be covered losses to the extent of our policy limits. The underwriter mentioned that at Progressive there was no trending risk related to lithium battery sourced fires and no current initiative to require additional riders or additional requirements on Progressive policies.

The underwriter did declare that any claim review will require documentation when major systems are modified from OEM. She recommended to continue to use professional ABYC installers and keep all documentation to keep our claims process smooth.

Peace of mind for now but warrants a close watch when we modify our systems...

 

[Evguy1]

This is through Western Financial Group (Canada) and the underwriter is Beacon. I was just going to put the pair of 100ahr lithium batteries from my RV into the boat for the two months we would use it this year. The boat has a Victron solar charge controller so that's easy to program for lithium and the DC-DC from the RV is a quick swap. I suppose I will just throw some PB back into it for this year.

 

[Jesperjo]

You should check with your underwriter what specific types of Lithium batteries they are referring to, as there are different types of batteries with Lithium in them. The requirements they sent you hint at concern over thermal runaway risk, which is a problem with Lithium Ion but not with Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4). LiFePo4 are much more stable, safer, last longer, and eco-friendly. Safety specs today generally won’t let you use Lithium-Ion batteries at all on a boat and I doubt you could actually find marine Lithium-Ion batteries.

Lithium-Ion is still used in some cars, laptops, and phones, because they hold about 150-250 watt hours per kg, whereas LiFePo4 holds 90-160 Wh or so.

 

[Rode Trip]

That was a strange paragraph from your underwriter and would carry no weight in the US. I'd never heard of "REG Yacht code" so looked it up and here is what AI says about it only pertaining to large ships and applicable in the UK.

The Red Ensign Group (REG) Yacht Code is a comprehensive set of safety, design, and operating standards for large commercial and private yachts registered with Red Ensign Group members. Implemented in 2019 and updated in 2024, it replaces the former Large Yacht Code 3 (LY3) and Passenger Yacht Code, simplifying regulations into two parts: Part A for vessels with up to 12 passengers and Part B for 13 to 36 passengers.Key Details About the REG Yacht CodePurpose: To standardize safety, pollution prevention, and technical standards for yachts over 24m, allowing for innovation while ensuring crew/passenger safety.Structure😛art A: Applies to commercial yachts (24m+ in length) carrying 12 or fewer passengers.Part B: Applies to yachts (private or commercial) carrying between 13 and 36 passengers.Update: A new version of the code was officially brought into force on July 1, 2024.Applicability: Applies to members of the Red Ensign Group, which include the UK, Crown Dependencies (Isle of Man, Guernsey, Jersey), and UK Overseas Territories (e.g., Cayman Islands, BVI, Bermuda).

I don't know about Canada, but here in the US we follow the USCG and ABYC standards and there's nothing wrong with a PROPER LiFEPo lithium battery installation. I survey lots of boats with lithium batteries and as long as they are installed properly I've never had a customer tell me they had a problem with insurance. 99% of lithium fire claims on boats & yachts come from other chemistries of lithium batteries, like the ones in phones, laptops, scooter, ebikes, etc.

 

[Jcat2010]

Find another insurer. 10 years ago li on was a risk, now with lifelong, those risks are understood and insurable. If work is done to standards, and documented. Geico/Boats has no such restrictions.