I’ve had my eye on an R21 or 21ec for a number of years, but because of certain situations I haven’t been able to get one yet. But I am happy to say that I will finally be in the market for one in the near future. There really isn’t anything that’s going to change my mind about the boat so I’m not going to be convinced or deterred one way or another. What I would like to ask of any current or previous owners of the 21 is; what are main problem issues to be aware of or look for when buying a preowned R21 or R21ec ? Like I said, I am already sold on the boat so I’m not going to change my mind based on the replies. Looking for honest answers about the worst and weakest things about them. Most common problem issues, weird attributes etc. I love the boat and I know there is no such thing as a perfect boat because everyone’s needs and situations are different, but this one is right about perfect for me. Any honest info would be greatly appreciated.
Buyer beware
- Thread starter Hivolt
- Start date
The biggest issue or one at least to be aware of is that at 6, 7, or 8 kts it takes a lot of time to traverse from A to B if the distance between A and B is large.
Be careful when topping up the fuel tank as it can easily overfill and make a mess, especially if the boat is rocking about when filling.
Getting in and out of the cabin is problematic if the helm seat is in its 'up' position. I found sitting on it when lowered and as a side saddle was best and actually quite comfortable.
If heading into large waves and wind the boat will dig in on the wave downsides and swamp the boat with a lot of water getting into the very exposed cockpit. I had a full enclosure on the cockpit and this avoided this from happening.
I found the stock stove quite useless.
I found the boat to be great fun to operate in calm and bad waters especially if you're not bothered with the rocking & rolling. The rudder has awesome affect and the boat's turning circle was very welcomed at times.
I had auto pilot on my R-21EC and loved it when making long straight line voyages. If you voyages are likely to be long I highly recommend auto-pilot.
R-21EC is a great little boat. Enjoy it.
Be careful when topping up the fuel tank as it can easily overfill and make a mess, especially if the boat is rocking about when filling.
Getting in and out of the cabin is problematic if the helm seat is in its 'up' position. I found sitting on it when lowered and as a side saddle was best and actually quite comfortable.
If heading into large waves and wind the boat will dig in on the wave downsides and swamp the boat with a lot of water getting into the very exposed cockpit. I had a full enclosure on the cockpit and this avoided this from happening.
I found the stock stove quite useless.
I found the boat to be great fun to operate in calm and bad waters especially if you're not bothered with the rocking & rolling. The rudder has awesome affect and the boat's turning circle was very welcomed at times.
I had auto pilot on my R-21EC and loved it when making long straight line voyages. If you voyages are likely to be long I highly recommend auto-pilot.
R-21EC is a great little boat. Enjoy it.
You seem committed to be an owner of a 21. You don't mention your depth of boat knowledge or where you arrived at your destiny to own a 21.
First, for most people, there is a significant difference between the the 21 and the 21EC . Simply put, the 21 has been a basic workhorse for years, and the 21EC gave us the upscale version.
Baz gave you a good list of some of the idiosyncrasies of the 21EC. Your usage of the boat will determine which of those is most applicable to you.
For some people the 21 is a "step-up" boat for a beginner....for others, it is their one and only life long craft , and then, perhaps , the 21 is the downsizing boat that completes a long boating life.....pretty extreme, but that is the lure of this boat.
You are, apparently, a new poster and new member here. By all means, you are in the right place to learn what you need to know about 21 tugs. Learn to use the search mode and you will find an incredible amount of knowledge and insight.
Once you have prepared yourself with this info, your shopping will uncover 21's that were trailer queens with so few hours on the clock you won't believe it. Others will have been lovingly used for hundreds....even thousands of hours...and some , even relatively new boats, will have been neglected or abused.
When you find that potential boat ,your level of boat technical knowledge will let you decide whether you can properly assess the condition . If you are not sure what you are looking at, a professional survey would be in order to give you some confidence you are not buying some ones problems. Marinas and banks and insurance companies may help find a list of marine surveying specialists near you.
You are looking at a great boat with a minimum number of "systems" on board, but, as with all boats, there are still areas that will need inspection and due diligence .
Here's hoping you find that perfect 21 and enjoy it as much as I enjoy mine.....
First, for most people, there is a significant difference between the the 21 and the 21EC . Simply put, the 21 has been a basic workhorse for years, and the 21EC gave us the upscale version.
Baz gave you a good list of some of the idiosyncrasies of the 21EC. Your usage of the boat will determine which of those is most applicable to you.
For some people the 21 is a "step-up" boat for a beginner....for others, it is their one and only life long craft , and then, perhaps , the 21 is the downsizing boat that completes a long boating life.....pretty extreme, but that is the lure of this boat.
You are, apparently, a new poster and new member here. By all means, you are in the right place to learn what you need to know about 21 tugs. Learn to use the search mode and you will find an incredible amount of knowledge and insight.
Once you have prepared yourself with this info, your shopping will uncover 21's that were trailer queens with so few hours on the clock you won't believe it. Others will have been lovingly used for hundreds....even thousands of hours...and some , even relatively new boats, will have been neglected or abused.
When you find that potential boat ,your level of boat technical knowledge will let you decide whether you can properly assess the condition . If you are not sure what you are looking at, a professional survey would be in order to give you some confidence you are not buying some ones problems. Marinas and banks and insurance companies may help find a list of marine surveying specialists near you.
You are looking at a great boat with a minimum number of "systems" on board, but, as with all boats, there are still areas that will need inspection and due diligence .
Here's hoping you find that perfect 21 and enjoy it as much as I enjoy mine.....
Catch22 ... no need to worry about my saltiness. I’ve been a mate, I have built Woden boats, I have rebuilt engines and drives. I loathe I/O set ups. I have been on boats since I could walk. I have owned everything from 10’ row boats to 27’ lobster/down Easter style. My current storage/financial/tow vehicle/slip expenses keep me somewhere under 23’. I have researched hundreds of boats and unfortunately am a die hard of classic style stuff. Plumb bows, lapstrake hulls, down east or semi displacement hulls. If I had the space I go for a 26’ groverbuilt, but I don’t. The atlas pompano 21’is a close runner up, but I like the fully enclosed cabin for the 21’ and the ease of towability. I don’t need a “ my schmeckle is bigger than yours “ boat. I can afford more but I don’t need more. I like style and classics and not running (fast) with the herd is sheep. I’d rather have a ‘68 Camaro for my everyday driver than a new Mercedes. There’s just something about classics that are timeless. There will always be newer and faster but that doesn’t equate to better. Jeans and a T shirt are timeless. Just like the lines of the 21. Horray for the checkmate and scarab speed boats... you can go fast and burn a lot of fuel, but they don’t have any style or class.
yorangerjim
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2018
- Messages
- 114
- Fluid Motion Model
- C-28
- Hull Identification Number
- FMLT2736J819
- Non-Fluid Motion Model
- Ranger 27 northwest edition
- Vessel Name
- R & R
What ever (hasta la vista baby)Hivolt":1bvx24m6 said:
bob daily
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2015
- Messages
- 1,118
- Fluid Motion Model
- R-21 EC
- Hull Identification Number
- 2129K809
- Vessel Name
- Scuttlebutt
The biggest problem most people have with the R-21, R-21EC is speed,if you want to get some place fast that would be a problem! But if your plan is to spend quality time on the water it's a great little boat! I use mine for fishing and quality time with the grandkids. The biggest problem I've had is leaving the dock, as people want to talk about your boat,another problem is it sticks out like a sore thumb so if you're doing something that might be borderline legal (if you know what I mean) every one knows! Last summer I was boarded three times in the same day by the game dept, and coast guard so they could show my boat to new crew members. Access to the cabin is limited so hefty girls are limited to the cockpit area! Alone time at the dock is unheard of so that quite drink and nap time is hard to get in! Backing is a guess so I would recommend a bow thruster. If fuel vent hasn't been reworked you will spill fuel with a full tank. Overall you'll love this boat as I do, good luck with your search. Bob
Bigsky
Active member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2018
- Messages
- 38
- Fluid Motion Model
- C-26
- Hull Identification Number
- FMLR2526C414
- Vessel Name
- Miss J
This is fun!
"For some people the 21 is a "step-up" boat for a beginner....."
"I’ve been a mate. I have been on boats since I could walk."
"What ever (hasta la vista baby)"
"Access to the cabin is limited so hefty girls are limited to the cockpit area!"
What an awesome thread to follow on a cold dreary Montana evening waiting for spring thaw. 🙂
"For some people the 21 is a "step-up" boat for a beginner....."
"I’ve been a mate. I have been on boats since I could walk."
"What ever (hasta la vista baby)"
"Access to the cabin is limited so hefty girls are limited to the cockpit area!"
What an awesome thread to follow on a cold dreary Montana evening waiting for spring thaw. 🙂
Pilotnavigator
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2014
- Messages
- 446
- Fluid Motion Model
- C-24 C SE
- Hull Identification Number
- FMLT2123K415
- Vessel Name
- Wanderer
- MMSI Number
- 316028321
Depending on your planned usage, I would recommend full canvas enclosure, the newer years have a table included. Get the stern swim platform rail to mount a BBQ and it greatly assists in getting up the swim ladder. If the boat does not have one then have a marine shop make one. I moved the seat from its normal position and set it over the fridge. I had to mount it on a piece of plywood to raise it up to clear the teak trim. The plywood extends outward behind the seat and I drilled one small hole in top of the fridge and put a pin through the seat board to hold in place between the wall and the teak trim. This works because I have long arms. This gives a lot more room in the cabin for two to move around. See my photos for other mod.
Blair White
Member
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
- Messages
- 22
- Fluid Motion Model
- C-24 C
- Non-Fluid Motion Model
- Catalina Sail - Willard Rib
I’m new too.
Nice first post.
Nice first post.
BillVT
Member
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2015
- Messages
- 5
- Fluid Motion Model
- C-24 C SE
- Hull Identification Number
- FMLT2116B606
We have a 2006 21EC with a surrey top which we just replaced this fall using a classic awning stripe. https://photos.app.goo.gl/xhAKNuYL6H1QLGoM7 Someone did mention the rudder. It is small and the prop can easily overwhelm the rudder making backing the boat a developed skill without the bow thruster. I've done it, but in a good cross wind in a tight spot it can be quite nerve wracking and take a few tries. Needless to say, I've become way over reliant on the bow thruster. Essentially you must feather between reverse and neutral, steering in neutral and maintaining way in reverse.
The boat is soft chined so it exhibits some roll when moving around on it. In calm waters I can sometimes steer the boat from outside the cabin by shifting my weight around in the cockpit. Of course, I'm not a light weight.
The bloody boat does attract attention and faster boats with large wakes will buzz you to get a better look. Often they will smile and wave while you maneuver to avoid being swamped. I avoid waving back with a raised middle finger.
In general it is a well constructed boat. Our previous craft was a '19 Whaler that had enumerable issues within the first years after purchase. The Ranger has been a solid and reliable vessel.
The boat is soft chined so it exhibits some roll when moving around on it. In calm waters I can sometimes steer the boat from outside the cabin by shifting my weight around in the cockpit. Of course, I'm not a light weight.
The bloody boat does attract attention and faster boats with large wakes will buzz you to get a better look. Often they will smile and wave while you maneuver to avoid being swamped. I avoid waving back with a raised middle finger.
In general it is a well constructed boat. Our previous craft was a '19 Whaler that had enumerable issues within the first years after purchase. The Ranger has been a solid and reliable vessel.
hames57
Member
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2018
- Messages
- 9
- Fluid Motion Model
- C-24 C (Sterndrive)
- Vessel Name
- poopsy
I own a 97 R21 Classic which means it has a two lung diesel that gets around a half gallon per hour at 6 mph worst case. It has brightwork which adds tremendously to the curb appeal. I've used it mostly on high mountain BIG lakes that get high winds and high waves and have never worried a bit about getting to where I wanted to go. I do have a 5hp honda on the stern just in case, but once the diesel is ticking over, it just won't die on its own. The systems are incredibly simple and the huge long cockpit that was destroyed when they went to the EC model is great for lots of people, fishing, and being out doors. I also have a full cockpit enclosure that makes a mighty roomy cruiser. The bow berth is good for two little people, but my wife and I aren't big people, but I sleep in the cockpit and let her have all the room n the berth. My 21 has no cooking or refrigeration and I am very happy to not have those systems inside the cabin. I love the center helm and only on the rare occasions of real cold or wet does my spouse even come inside. She's much happier out in the roomy cockpit snoozing and sunning or photographing the sights. The maneuverability of the 21's big rudder makes the boat turn in about its own length. Only one time have I had to rely on my stern thruster (the honda OB) to help me back out of a very narrow ally. I run at about 6.5 mph at about 2800 RPM at cruise. I have an easily moved stainless swim step that fits brackets on the port and starboard side. I;ve got plenty of technology at the helm and seriously am considering a simple autopilot and converting to hydraulic steering at the same time. There is very little that I can't fix on the water like belts and water pumps etc. All systems are open and can be easily reached and worked on with simple tools. I tried on a 21 EC and the advantages were countered by the disadvantages. Bigger cabin, but much smaller cockpit. fancy systems, but more complex. Fridge not big enough to be called such. Stove not really usable. I have a single axle trailer that makes a lighter towing load as well as boat weight being lower. If I'd bought an EC, i'd be crowing about its wonders, but I have the classic and if I made another boat buy it would be to at least a 23 ranger or a 22 C-dory, my other favorite boat I've ever owned.
REO6205
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2015
- Messages
- 166
- Location
- Fortuna, Ca.
- Fluid Motion Model
- R-21 EC
- Hull Identification Number
- FML2138C414
- Vessel Name
- Chenier
- MMSI Number
- 338228251
I have a 2014 EC. For the most part it's a great little boat once you understand it's limitations.
The main gripe I have about the boat is access to some of the mechanical things. The following are things I've found on my particular boat. Other 21s might be set up a little differently. I spent most of my life running other people's boats and I almost always had an engineer I could call on when mechanical problems arose. Now, being mostly retired, I'm the engineer. It's been a learning process.
I'll give you the info on the things I've found wrong, or bad, or difficult to deal with. You say you're already familiar with the boat so you should already know the good stuff.
The bilge pump is in an awkward place and when you pull the pump itself out of the base assembly it's easy to twist and break the wiring. Since everything drains from the cockpit into the bilge...fish scales, crawfish tails, stray bits of fishing line, dog hair, anything small enough to flow through the deck strainers...the base of the bilge pump will eventually clog. If enough garbage gets in there the little plastic vanes that are supposed to pump water will jam and the pump motor will burn out. I check the bilge pump every week. There isn't quite enough room to get a flashlite and your hand down there at the same time so you'll either develop the ability to work by grope or you'll farm the job out to a high priced mechanic.
Likewise the stuffing gland on the shaft. It's hard to get a grip on the locking nut and the packing nut itself with enough leverage to move them. I wound up customizing two wrenches to tighten it by heating and bending until I had the right angles. It was worth the cost. It's not a job that has to be done often but when it needs to be done it can't be ignored.
The valve for the sea water intake is in an awkward place. If you have to remove it or tighten it you'll once again be working by grope because you can't get your eyeballs and your hand in there at the same time.
The steering gear where it attaches to the rudder is another place difficult to access. I cut a couple of access hatches in the lazarette in front of the fuel tank so I can get in there in the event of a broken cable or fitting and the need for a quick repair. I added a socket onto the top of the steering post that I can hook a wrench to to center the rudder. If you do lose your steering you can idle along in reverse and keep a heading (sterning?) with your bowthruster but it's clumsy and if you have to fight a tide you'll be all night getting back to the dock.
I took the seat cushion off the helm seat. I hardly ever sit down when I'm steering anyway and the fibreglass base for the seat is plenty . The seat itself was a PITA and took up too much room.
There are a couple of things inherent in the hull design that you can't do much about but you can adjust to. The boat is so light and so shallow draft that the wind will move it like a feather. This becomes evident in docking or trying a straight track in open water.
In a following sea it steers like a hog on ice. The rudder is of good size and responsive but the boat just doesn't have enough draft. My neighbor is a retired bar pilot and after spending the day with me and coming home with four hours of following seas he made the observation..."This thing just don't have enough ass".
It handles a six to eight foot head sea well but if the fetch is short you'll want to slow down to keep it from pounding. In a beam sea, especially with a wind chop of any size, it has a short whippy roll that your passengers may not like. I've never rolled a rail completely under but I've had enough water in the cockpit to make me hope the bilge pump wouldn't clog.
Thats about all I can think of for now. It's really a great little boat but there are always things that could have, and should have, been done better.
The main gripe I have about the boat is access to some of the mechanical things. The following are things I've found on my particular boat. Other 21s might be set up a little differently. I spent most of my life running other people's boats and I almost always had an engineer I could call on when mechanical problems arose. Now, being mostly retired, I'm the engineer. It's been a learning process.
I'll give you the info on the things I've found wrong, or bad, or difficult to deal with. You say you're already familiar with the boat so you should already know the good stuff.
The bilge pump is in an awkward place and when you pull the pump itself out of the base assembly it's easy to twist and break the wiring. Since everything drains from the cockpit into the bilge...fish scales, crawfish tails, stray bits of fishing line, dog hair, anything small enough to flow through the deck strainers...the base of the bilge pump will eventually clog. If enough garbage gets in there the little plastic vanes that are supposed to pump water will jam and the pump motor will burn out. I check the bilge pump every week. There isn't quite enough room to get a flashlite and your hand down there at the same time so you'll either develop the ability to work by grope or you'll farm the job out to a high priced mechanic.
Likewise the stuffing gland on the shaft. It's hard to get a grip on the locking nut and the packing nut itself with enough leverage to move them. I wound up customizing two wrenches to tighten it by heating and bending until I had the right angles. It was worth the cost. It's not a job that has to be done often but when it needs to be done it can't be ignored.
The valve for the sea water intake is in an awkward place. If you have to remove it or tighten it you'll once again be working by grope because you can't get your eyeballs and your hand in there at the same time.
The steering gear where it attaches to the rudder is another place difficult to access. I cut a couple of access hatches in the lazarette in front of the fuel tank so I can get in there in the event of a broken cable or fitting and the need for a quick repair. I added a socket onto the top of the steering post that I can hook a wrench to to center the rudder. If you do lose your steering you can idle along in reverse and keep a heading (sterning?) with your bowthruster but it's clumsy and if you have to fight a tide you'll be all night getting back to the dock.
I took the seat cushion off the helm seat. I hardly ever sit down when I'm steering anyway and the fibreglass base for the seat is plenty . The seat itself was a PITA and took up too much room.
There are a couple of things inherent in the hull design that you can't do much about but you can adjust to. The boat is so light and so shallow draft that the wind will move it like a feather. This becomes evident in docking or trying a straight track in open water.
In a following sea it steers like a hog on ice. The rudder is of good size and responsive but the boat just doesn't have enough draft. My neighbor is a retired bar pilot and after spending the day with me and coming home with four hours of following seas he made the observation..."This thing just don't have enough ass".
It handles a six to eight foot head sea well but if the fetch is short you'll want to slow down to keep it from pounding. In a beam sea, especially with a wind chop of any size, it has a short whippy roll that your passengers may not like. I've never rolled a rail completely under but I've had enough water in the cockpit to make me hope the bilge pump wouldn't clog.
Thats about all I can think of for now. It's really a great little boat but there are always things that could have, and should have, been done better.
MichaelStrotz2
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2015
- Messages
- 12
- Fluid Motion Model
- C-24 C SE
- Vessel Name
- Liberty Belle
My 2008 21EC has the 30 hp Yanmar engine and is expensive to run. It uses about $1.50 of diesel an hour when cruising near full speed (8 mph). :lol:
My boat is at a waterfront restaurant on the West River 10 miles south of Annapolis, MD. It is 2 miles from the Chesapeake Bay. I keep her there because the river offers nice boating when the Chesapeake Bay is choppy. My advice is that you find a dock situation on sheltered waters where you can cruise and anchor without having to go out into nearby larger waters when it is too choppy for that. You live in N.J. You don't want a marina that opens directly onto the Delaware Bay or Atlantic or you will be bottled up at the marina many days.
When I pull into the historic area of Annapolis, the locals at the waterfront bar pull out their camera phones and tourists on the sidewalk crowd around when I tie up. It has something to do with the boat's lines. I did not realize a 3/5-size replica of an Alaska Bristol Bay trawler would get so much attention in the sailing capitol of America. Don't buy it if you are camera shy, don't like talking with strangers, or are in the witness-protection program. 🙂
My boat does not have air conditioning which I really regret. 🙁 It effects how I use the boat on "warmer" days and limits my overnighting in summer. The pilot house has 6 windows and 3 hatches. The 2 side windows slide open half-way. None of the other windows open. It is hot inside when it is 82 outside, even when cruising and 2 fans flowing. On "warm" days in the summer I go to the boat at sunrise and am back at my dock by 10 am. I am in Mayland and your location, New Jersey, is similarly hot in the summer.
The boat's beam is 6'8". That is indeed narrow. The boat steers poorly in reverse. I manage.
I have a theory that due to the unique looks and diesel engine it will when 20 or 30 years old retain much more of its value than similarly-sized boats.
My boat is at a waterfront restaurant on the West River 10 miles south of Annapolis, MD. It is 2 miles from the Chesapeake Bay. I keep her there because the river offers nice boating when the Chesapeake Bay is choppy. My advice is that you find a dock situation on sheltered waters where you can cruise and anchor without having to go out into nearby larger waters when it is too choppy for that. You live in N.J. You don't want a marina that opens directly onto the Delaware Bay or Atlantic or you will be bottled up at the marina many days.
When I pull into the historic area of Annapolis, the locals at the waterfront bar pull out their camera phones and tourists on the sidewalk crowd around when I tie up. It has something to do with the boat's lines. I did not realize a 3/5-size replica of an Alaska Bristol Bay trawler would get so much attention in the sailing capitol of America. Don't buy it if you are camera shy, don't like talking with strangers, or are in the witness-protection program. 🙂
My boat does not have air conditioning which I really regret. 🙁 It effects how I use the boat on "warmer" days and limits my overnighting in summer. The pilot house has 6 windows and 3 hatches. The 2 side windows slide open half-way. None of the other windows open. It is hot inside when it is 82 outside, even when cruising and 2 fans flowing. On "warm" days in the summer I go to the boat at sunrise and am back at my dock by 10 am. I am in Mayland and your location, New Jersey, is similarly hot in the summer.
The boat's beam is 6'8". That is indeed narrow. The boat steers poorly in reverse. I manage.
I have a theory that due to the unique looks and diesel engine it will when 20 or 30 years old retain much more of its value than similarly-sized boats.