Buying a used boat?

[Champ]

How many of you feel comfortable buying a used boat? For those of you who did, how did you go about it and were you happy with the result?

My wife and I have always been "buy what we can afford new" type of people and have to say it's worked well for us. We are considering an R-23, if we can find one, and this is in our affordable range. We also see some nice used "larger" boats in the same price range and wonder if done the right way it could work out for us?

Thanks.

 

[South lake]

I've bought both used and new. My own formula for used involves 3 things. First my own look at the boat and I'm looking for how clean the boat is. If it looks like it's been kept by someone who keeps it looking good they probably are good about maintenance. Second I look for a well kept log and maintenance records. And I read through them. And finally, and most important, I get it professionally surveyed.

 

[Rockyman]

How many of you feel comfortable buying a used boat? For those of you who did, how did you go about it and were you happy with the result?

My wife and I have always been "buy what we can afford new" type of people and have to say it's worked well for us. We are considering an R-23, if we can find one, and this is in our affordable range. We also see some nice used "larger" boats in the same price range and wonder if done the right way it could work out for us?

Thanks.

I have bought several boats over the last 50 years. Initially I thought like you: "new has to be better". However after many hassles with "teething" problems on my own boats and other folks' boats I have come to the conclusion that a young, clean, used boat is by far the best value. Every new boat I have dealt with has had teething problems some of which were both annoying and costly. Also, every new boat I have owned has dropped its value more in the first year than at any other time. By buying a young, used, boat that has been well cared for, somebody else has had to deal with the teething problems and somebody else has paid the premium price for the boat and its extras (like electronics). For these reasons, my last six boats have all been used.

I have had two Ranger Tugs, a 21 EC and a 27 (my current boat). Both were factory trade ins, both were reasonably priced and I have always received the same excellent service from the Ranger factory that I would expect to receive on a new boat. So far, I have had no big problems with either of my Ranger Tugs and all of the minor issues have been resolved quickly by a phone call or e-mail to Andrew or Kenny. This service is far superior to any I received on the new boats I bought in the past.

 

[Two killicks]

Buying an almost new unit is what we did, a 21ec with 100 hrs on the engine only 4 years old, no regrets what so ever, and the depreciation...

 

[NorthernFocus]

+1 to Rockyman's post.

Boat's aren't cars. They don't come off of a robot assembly line exactly the same. No matter how "standardized" they are, each one is a unique beast. They all have the aforementioned teething pains. Also invariably used boats come with additional equipment (PFDs, boat hooks, dock lines, etc.) that can easily add up to hundreds of dollars worth of gear. In my younger years I worked on boats for a living and new ones were no less problem than "young" ones. Though older boats (like 10+ years) can be a different story unless they've been well cared for. Personally I've never bought anything but used save one, a 22 C-Dory. And I bought that one "naked" and installed all of the mechanical equipment and electronics myself. No better way to know where everything is 😀

All that said, if you aren't boat savvy and/or a DIY type, factory/dealer support on a new one might not be a bad idea. One thing I did like about that C-Dory is that I definitively knew the history of every piece of gear. That's nice piece of mind to have. Worth something too.

 

[wincrasher]

So far, I haven't had any "teething" issues as noted above. By buying new, I avoided any anxiety about hidden problems or things breaking with no warranty coverage. I also got the latest revision of all the electronics. Also got exactly what I wanted and the color I wanted, and all cosmetically perfect. Peace of mind and getting all the bells and whistles I wanted was worth it to me. I don't plan on keeping my boat only a couple years, so the depreciation is not all that important. I suppose if you are planning to move up in 3 or 4 years, then that is something to consider.

 

[harry ames]

A good hull is absolutely key and a C-Dory that is kept dry on top and coated on the bottom just won't age. But unfortunately, the systems age. Engines are a particular problem as a 200 hour engine can be more abused and at higher risk for the buyer than a 1000 hour engine. The only way to go into used purchases is with a professional engine guy looking at that system and professional hull guy looking at that and a professional trailer guy looking at that. Then you have reason to have 75% confidence that you are getting a good boat. The other 25% comes from spending the first 50 hours on the water. I sold my 22 to fellow who had a tilt motor go bad within a few weeks. I'd never had tilt problems before. But fortunately, he had skills and replaced a bad o ring and cleaned the electric motor. So, even the prior owner vouching for the condition of the boat won't keep problems at bay. However, I think that if you are buying from someone who watches and posts on a manufacturer site like tugnuts and vouches for his or her boat, you are a step ahead of the game.

Also, most recreational boats don't pile up hours and that can be good and bad. Good if the boat goes through preventative maintenance without regard to accumulated hours. Bad if the boat is run and run as a cash cow in a commercial operation.

As far as new is concerned, ditto the poster who said that new boats have teething problems. But if I had the disposable income, I'd always buy new; sadly, I've never had throw-away money to pay for the high depreciation on new boats and cars.

I'm not at all afraid of used, but the buyer needs to do due diligence and all will be well.

 

[NorthernFocus]

...The only way to go into used purchases is with a professional engine guy looking at that system and professional hull guy looking at that and a professional trailer guy looking at that...

Replace the word "professional" with "knowledgeable" and you're spot on. Professional simply means someone makes a living at something. Skill/knowledge is implied, but not assured. I've seen some pretty shoddy marine surveys over the years.

On the other hand one of the greatest things about modern electronic engine controls is the data that can be recovered from memory. Such as how many hours at various RPM ranges, alarm history, etc. Any rooky mechanic with a laptop and the appropriate software can pull that info.

 

[bill46]

We bought a 2 year old, 70 hour R31CB.
Seller fixed all survey items, most from not being used.
survey missed ice maker motor.
Overall very satisfied.
New boats always have issues also.

 

[INCAHOOTS]

Champ

I would buy new. I have always purchased based on quality of product and relationship with the manufacture. It's true new boats have issues but they will be solved by the factory.

I will say this there is no product with the support that Ranger Tugs give. Buying new will give you this support for the life of the boat. To me this is well worth the investment to buy new.

 

[jld]

I love the R23. If I were buying a new boat, this would likely be the boat that I buy.

That said, if I was buying a boat today, I most definitely would also take a look at late-model used boats as well. I have sailed three used boats (15' - 28.5') over the last 25 years. Each of these boats was purchased used, and I have no issues with any of them.

I have seen many used (3 - 4 years old) larger boats for the same money as a new R23. For example, there is a 2012 C26 (with trailer) listed at $110,000 on Yachtworld.com. This is about the same price that a new R23 (with trailer) would run. Assuming the used boat is well-maintained and there are no survey issues, I would likely purchase the larger, late model, used, boat over a new boat.

Buying new or used is a very personal decision. There is no right or wrong answer. In the end, the buyer is spending his/her/their money and only they can decide on what feels right.

Jim

 

[rt11002003]

I should be a boat dealer; so my wife thinks and says, at times. I bought my first boat in 1975, when I decided to retire from the USAF. Since then, I've purchased five new boats. The best new boat purchase was a 2009 R21EC from Ranger. It wasn't perfect, but the after purchase support was great. I'm averaging more than one boat purchase a year; sometimes owning as many as three boats, at once. Somewhere around 60 boats in the past 41 years.

Having a heavy background in technical areas, I felt confident in my ability to judge the condition of most boats I encountered. After awhile, it became obvious two set of eyes with requisite skills were better than one. I never made a bad purchase, but found enough overlooked small things (after a few months of using a boat) to believe a good marine surveyor was worth his/her fee.

Two of my last three boats, I bought sight unseen. Boat number one: I depended on photos and the owner's statements, backed up by a marine survey. The second, I depended on photos and the owner's statements. Of course, it was a year old Ranger R21EC with a 30+ hour engine; delivered by the owner who lives about 150 miles away. It wound up with a bad battery, which he replaced.

Economically, a boat that is from one to five years old is the better buy than a new boat. And, one is likely to find equipment that is up to date. The older the boat, the more wary one should be. No matter what experience (or how much) one has, a good marine surveyor is important. Consult the marine surveyors' association for names, seek references; it's especially helpful to have personal knowledge about the surveyor. Private sale/purchases can be an advantage, if using a surveyor; and, one can manage the funding search by ones self.

I've visited a couple of manufacturing facilities when considering purchases of a new boat. That can be helpful in making a decision. No matter how good the reputation of a manufacturer, things can go wrong. It helps to see how the boat is put together. After purchase support is essential. One can't do too much checking and research on the dealer and the manufacturer. My personal experience leads me to believe there are very few really good support facilities out there. The marine industry is a far cry from the automotive and aircraft industries.

I'd buy a new boat, if what I wanted was only available new; and if I was convinced the support was OK. I'm still considering a new R23, a slightly used R25SC, or a R29. The used boats have an appeal, if I can find what I'd like from a private seller. In my state, private sales/purchases of used boats are not subject to sales taxes.

 

[Champ]

Went with a new R-23 outboard. New has always worked best for us.

 

[cstpt]

While buying new will always result in the most dramatic short term depreciation, I wonder if there are any statistics on whether there is a point at which it breaks even, i.e., if one buys a new boat and sells five years later, what's the hit vs. buying a 5-year old boat and selling five years later? I bought my first boat new, a Boston Whaler, and was satisfied with the residual value when I sold it five years later. (Whalers seem similar to RT in those terms.) The intervening sailboats have been 30-40 years old. My experience and observation is that those who buy old boats often invest the purchase amount again in repairs and upgrades, with the end result that the boat remains worth about what one paid originally, minus the upgrades, so that's depreciation of a sort. I would have been pleased to find an EC that was several years old, but that is a rare opportunity, and increasingly so. When I look at the price of boats that are 5-10 years old, the price of buying new doesn't seem so outrageous. Or so I tell myself.

 

[cracker39]

I’ll be 79 this month and I think that, at last count, I’ve owned 21 to 24 boats, both sail and power, and I’ve only lost money on two. The first was a 19’ O’Day Mariner sailboat that I bought new and had to sell because of a geographical relocation, and the second was a 29’ Prairie Diesel Trawler that I had to place with a broker (commission cost) for the same reason. Most of my boats have been at the point where their depreciation had all but stopped, (—- which, admittantly, can be a difficult point to determine for someone lacking experience) while condition, and the boat’s known reputation, had now become the factors that determined the boats’ value. Usually my purchases were from private sellers - no broker involved - and only if I was thoroughly familiar with the boats’ reputation for quality and performance. Aside from delayed maintenance by the prior owner, I never experienced any costly surprises or major repairs. My success in subsequently selling the boat for what I paid for it - or at a profit - and, often after several years of ownership, was a result of my simply bringing the boat up to shipshape condition. For the record, I always avoided high horsepower gas outboards or inboards - and if that’s what you’re looking for/at, forget everything I’ve said (“caveat emptor”) and seek out a top-notch mechanic to “bless” the power plant. My cost of ownership was never more than the cost of routine maintenance. I was born in Florida, started boating when I was nine years old, and moved to Maine in 1997. I could never afford to spend a lot on my boats and, to date, the most I’ve ever been able to spend to buy a boat was about $32,000. My response to that dilemma has always been to simply lower my expectations to what I can afford - now on a retirement income - and just keep on boating. Right now that response is represented by a gorgeous little 1993 R21 Classic with its’ 16 hp diesel.

 

[Cutwater28GG]

boats arent production line items. they are small run, customized items. as long as maintenance is carried out buying used is very practical. a boat is never really finished 🙂