Jcat2010
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2022
- Messages
- 217
- Fluid Motion Model
- R-27 (Outboard)
- Vessel Name
- Barchetta
Looking back... Here's a few things I learned after buying a used tug and getting it in shape.
We had focused in on a used R27 LE and had several candidates. I surfed this site for a while, compiling a list of questions about some of the more "Ranger specific" systems and such, and some from my previous owning experience. Several of the candidates fell to the wayside when our broker couldn't get answers or pictures that were indicative of a well cared for boat. Some were clearly "bs". Things like "the boat has AC, and AGM batteries, and runs for hours underway with no problems", which if you've poked around on this site does not make sense. Or, the "boat has lithium house batteries", but the pictures you request clearly show Universal AGMs. Or things like "why do all the pictures show the outboard down, get me a picture of the lower unit out of the water". Or my personal favorite "why are most of the pictures the stock ones from the RT website". I mean, not everybody can own the same two kayaks and store them in the same location.
That way we narrowed it down to two boats, one had significant findings, mostly punchlist items that never got addressed by the "new" owner who never used a lot of systems, or just never got things fixed. A couple items that were dealer issues that also never got addressed by the first owner (lithium batteries, bad bottom paint issues and trim tab issues).
And even on the boat we bought, with what the surveyor found and we addressed, there were still items that worked fine in the survey but failed shortly after we started using (also mostly punchlist items).
Here's a short list of issues found, all in one place, might be useful for others in similar situations.
The westerbeke generator. My favorite subject. A lawn tractor motor run by a computer. Heat exchanger leaks. Catch them early, easy to fix, just replace o rings and tighten up. Catch them late, and lots of rework or replacement of the hx. Not cheap.
Also, don't just run it for five minutes during survey, run it the whole time you're on the sea trial. They either die in the first 5 minutes ( bad sensors and computer shutdown) or after a half hour (sensors are heat sensitive and only act up once warmed up) or, once you fix these things they run great until the belts fail.
Lithium batteries- a few owners claimed they had lithium, when they clearly had AGMs. Can't run the AC on AGMs. One owner had some unknown lithiums, no warranty, no users manual, no info that gave me anything but more questions. We think this was a one-off, but there might be more...right about the time COVID was in full swing, so maybe some supply chain issues.
Bad bottom paint- two cases, different dealers, both did bad prep and bad application. Bottom paint pulled off in large chunks, required complete rework of bottom, beyond touching up.
Trim tabs missing anodes, mounting screws missing heads - salt water boat. Dealer should have added anodes. Expensive rework to rebed the tabs.
USCG non compliant BBQ grille wiring. Boat has a genset, Regs, and just good safety practice, requires all electrical devices in the bilge be ignition protected. GFCIs are not IP. Fix is in newer models, but not our 2020. Rewired. GFCIs spark when they operate, not good with genset and 140gal of gasoline.
Missing high water bilge alarm - the boat had much of the wiring, but not the alarm, or sensor, or all wiring. Used some of original, added what was missing.
Gel cracks in the forward bilge. Not structural, but messy. Epoxy.
AC temp sensor was still wrapped in a bundle, next to the electrical box. Really bad AC setting issues were solved by relocating it to the intake and sealing up some of the monkeyfur panels.
Loose "screwed" panels. Found a lot of loose panels, inside and out, that had screws that were either short- and not really holding, or the substrate holes were either too large or wallowed out.
Garboard drain - turns out the stern drain plug was frozen in the drain plate. Had to replace entire fixture. Seems the base was bronze and the plug was brass. Not good underwater for three years.
Bilge pump wiring- the bilge pumps come with three foot sealed leads which should be spliced into the boat circuits above the wet area- where the tubing is attached to the bilge on the side. Turns out mine were spliced about an inch from the pump, in the wet, factory labels and all. Eventually failed and had to replace pumps.
Lift cylinders on center deck lazarette hatch were inadequate size for safe working - lid would slowly lower. Replaced with up sized cylinders.
Canopy stitching - the thread, according to my canvas guy, was not UV resistant. Lots of restitching at almost every Velcro attachment point.
Just stuff I learned.
.
We had focused in on a used R27 LE and had several candidates. I surfed this site for a while, compiling a list of questions about some of the more "Ranger specific" systems and such, and some from my previous owning experience. Several of the candidates fell to the wayside when our broker couldn't get answers or pictures that were indicative of a well cared for boat. Some were clearly "bs". Things like "the boat has AC, and AGM batteries, and runs for hours underway with no problems", which if you've poked around on this site does not make sense. Or, the "boat has lithium house batteries", but the pictures you request clearly show Universal AGMs. Or things like "why do all the pictures show the outboard down, get me a picture of the lower unit out of the water". Or my personal favorite "why are most of the pictures the stock ones from the RT website". I mean, not everybody can own the same two kayaks and store them in the same location.
That way we narrowed it down to two boats, one had significant findings, mostly punchlist items that never got addressed by the "new" owner who never used a lot of systems, or just never got things fixed. A couple items that were dealer issues that also never got addressed by the first owner (lithium batteries, bad bottom paint issues and trim tab issues).
And even on the boat we bought, with what the surveyor found and we addressed, there were still items that worked fine in the survey but failed shortly after we started using (also mostly punchlist items).
Here's a short list of issues found, all in one place, might be useful for others in similar situations.
The westerbeke generator. My favorite subject. A lawn tractor motor run by a computer. Heat exchanger leaks. Catch them early, easy to fix, just replace o rings and tighten up. Catch them late, and lots of rework or replacement of the hx. Not cheap.
Also, don't just run it for five minutes during survey, run it the whole time you're on the sea trial. They either die in the first 5 minutes ( bad sensors and computer shutdown) or after a half hour (sensors are heat sensitive and only act up once warmed up) or, once you fix these things they run great until the belts fail.
Lithium batteries- a few owners claimed they had lithium, when they clearly had AGMs. Can't run the AC on AGMs. One owner had some unknown lithiums, no warranty, no users manual, no info that gave me anything but more questions. We think this was a one-off, but there might be more...right about the time COVID was in full swing, so maybe some supply chain issues.
Bad bottom paint- two cases, different dealers, both did bad prep and bad application. Bottom paint pulled off in large chunks, required complete rework of bottom, beyond touching up.
Trim tabs missing anodes, mounting screws missing heads - salt water boat. Dealer should have added anodes. Expensive rework to rebed the tabs.
USCG non compliant BBQ grille wiring. Boat has a genset, Regs, and just good safety practice, requires all electrical devices in the bilge be ignition protected. GFCIs are not IP. Fix is in newer models, but not our 2020. Rewired. GFCIs spark when they operate, not good with genset and 140gal of gasoline.
Missing high water bilge alarm - the boat had much of the wiring, but not the alarm, or sensor, or all wiring. Used some of original, added what was missing.
Gel cracks in the forward bilge. Not structural, but messy. Epoxy.
AC temp sensor was still wrapped in a bundle, next to the electrical box. Really bad AC setting issues were solved by relocating it to the intake and sealing up some of the monkeyfur panels.
Loose "screwed" panels. Found a lot of loose panels, inside and out, that had screws that were either short- and not really holding, or the substrate holes were either too large or wallowed out.
Garboard drain - turns out the stern drain plug was frozen in the drain plate. Had to replace entire fixture. Seems the base was bronze and the plug was brass. Not good underwater for three years.
Bilge pump wiring- the bilge pumps come with three foot sealed leads which should be spliced into the boat circuits above the wet area- where the tubing is attached to the bilge on the side. Turns out mine were spliced about an inch from the pump, in the wet, factory labels and all. Eventually failed and had to replace pumps.
Lift cylinders on center deck lazarette hatch were inadequate size for safe working - lid would slowly lower. Replaced with up sized cylinders.
Canopy stitching - the thread, according to my canvas guy, was not UV resistant. Lots of restitching at almost every Velcro attachment point.
Just stuff I learned.
.