C-24: Kicker or Not

[Remedy2]

I have a 2020 C-24 with a Yamaha 250. When I bought it, I thought I'd trade it within a couple of years so opted not to get the kicker. Things have changed; we have a home in Port Ludlow that we "commute" via our C24 back and forth from Edmonds which is the perfect boat for it.

Saturday, I lost power right outside of Edmonds and ended up banging against the breakwall a bit. The SKEG broke and it's easily fixed and I just finished repairing the gelcoat in the yard today. I am now thinking I'll keep the boat another 3-5 years and we still cruise frequently to the San Juans so, having a backup motor, isn't the worst idea.

Question I have is this: The boat already slightly lists port as I added some upgraded house batteries. With the motor- it's another 100 lbs plus additional parts- would it be a good idea to relocate one house battery starboard side?

Other question: If you're cruising at "trawler speed" can you cruise with the kicker to save gas/noise?

Thanks in advance for the input- never had a kicker but think I'm going to do it.

 

[Submariner]

I have an RT27-OB with the T9.9 kicker.

The F300 is quieter than the T9.9 kicker, by a lot. But the T9.9 will burn 1gph at WOT and will push the RT27-OB around 5 knots. We use it a lot while out crabbing. Set the pots, turn off the F300, fire up the kicker, set the auto pilot to pace and do 1 knot that way, turn around, 1 knot back... for a couple of hours waiting on the pots to soak for those days that we don't want to anchor or there's not a decent anchorage nearby.

The T9.9 kicker also has an 8 amp alternator, which is small. So the house bank gets used when we're on the kicker. At WOT, it'll put in just enough 12 volt DC current to barely keep up with the chart plotter, radar, radio, and other electrical loads. at less than WOT, the house bank will provide the extra electrical needed. (Not a big deal, just something to be aware of).

Another thing to note... I use the Garmin Chartplotter for fuel consumption. It's really accurate, within a gallon or less usually, in calculating how much gas I have left. (We have a 150 gallon fuel tank). The kicker is not hooked into the Yamaha electronics, thus the Garmin Chart-plotter can not see the fuel consumption of the T9.9 kicker. So at the fuel dock, I'll usually be 3 or 4 gallons off, depending on how much time I've put on the kicker.

The kicker most definitely can save on fuel at slow speeds, it also can act as an "hours eater", by taking time off the F250/300 main engine. Maintenance is less expensive on the T9.9 over the F250/300. Noise wise, the kicker is louder than the F300, but at slow speeds, 1-3 knots, the kicker noise is fine. At WOT (about 5 knots) I go inside the cabin and shut the door behind me.

 

[Remedy2]

I have an RT27-OB with the T9.9 kicker.

The F300 is quieter than the T9.9 kicker, by a lot. But the T9.9 will burn 1gph at WOT and will push the RT27-OB around 5 knots. We use it a lot while out crabbing. Set the pots, turn off the F300, fire up the kicker, set the auto pilot to pace and do 1 knot that way, turn around, 1 knot back... for a couple of hours waiting on the pots to soak for those days that we don't want to anchor or there's not a decent anchorage nearby.

The T9.9 kicker also has an 8 amp alternator, which is small. So the house bank gets used when we're on the kicker. At WOT, it'll put in just enough 12 volt DC current to barely keep up with the chart plotter, radar, radio, and other electrical loads. at less than WOT, the house bank will provide the extra electrical needed. (Not a big deal, just something to be aware of).

Another thing to note... I use the Garmin Chartplotter for fuel consumption. It's really accurate, within a gallon or less usually, in calculating how much gas I have left. (We have a 150 gallon fuel tank). The kicker is not hooked into the Yamaha electronics, thus the Garmin Chart-plotter can not see the fuel consumption of the T9.9 kicker. So at the fuel dock, I'll usually be 3 or 4 gallons off, depending on how much time I've put on the kicker.

The kicker most definitely can save on fuel at slow speeds, it also can act as an "hours eater", by taking time off the F250/300 main engine. Maintenance is less expensive on the T9.9 over the F250/300. Noise wise, the kicker is louder than the F300, but at slow speeds, 1-3 knots, the kicker noise is fine. At WOT (about 5 knots) I go inside the cabin and shut the door behind me.

Thanks so much for the detailed info-exactly what I was looking for. I like your idea of trolling with the crab pots (and I do fish regular so will use it to troll). For the auto-pilot- I assume the kicker is steered with the tie-rod between the F250 and the kicker? Never thought of that but that's a bonus feature too.

I guess I'll have to get past my OCD on the Garmin fuel plotter LOL. But, truth be told, I fill it up just about every-time and rarely let her get under 25 gallons.

 

[Submariner]

For the auto-pilot- I assume the kicker is steered with the tie-rod between the F250 and the kicker? Never thought of that but that's a bonus feature too.

I guess I'll have to get past my OCD on the Garmin fuel plotter LOL. But, truth be told, I fill it up just about every-time and rarely let her get under 25 gallons.

My kicker was installed with a tie-rod that connects it directly to the F300 for steering. This is good for steering, obviously. But if I had a problem with my F300 and had to limp back to the dock on the T9.9, I doubt I'd be able to maneuver back into my slip. The helm steering is about 15' away from the T9.9 throttle for fwd and reverse. We have a remote throttle installed in the cockpit. It looks somewhat funny in that the throttle is in the cockpit and operates starboard to port (sideways). It'd take two people to maneuver the boat. But the kicker would get me to the marina which is a lot cheaper than a tow.

If the kicker had just a tiller, then steering and throttle are handled out on the transom, which isn't necessarily good for fishing/trolling (thinking sea-state). But for manuvering back to the dock, it'd be more doable. Probably still need a 2nd person for the bow thruster for docking, but one person would own steering, fwd and reverse. For fishing/trolling, with a tiller, you would just leave the T9.9 kicker pointing straight, leave the F250/300 in the water (turned off). The autopilot will steer the F250/300 which acts as a rudder.

 

[baz]

Docking.... have someone on the bow who has two long lines in hand: one attached to bow and the other attached to the stern.. Bow person jumps onto the dock and pulls the boat into its slip. So just get the R27/OB to point its nose at the end of the slip, and forget about the docking difficulty. Sure with two people its doable, but solo would be a different matter.

 

[Submariner]

Docking.... have someone on the bow who has two long lines in hand: one attached to bow and the other attached to the stern.. Bow person jumps onto the dock and pulls the boat into its slip. So just get the R27/OB to point its nose at the end of the slip, and forget about the docking difficulty. Sure with two people its doable, but solo would be a different matter.

I'm not asking anybody, especially my wife, nor myself, to jump off the bow of the boat to the dock.
I'd rather opt for waving a 6 pack of beer from the cockpit to acquire help from the folks on the dock. 🙂

 

[GaylesFaerie]

What Submariner said. See: https://www.modernsailing.com/article/c ... event-them

Stepping off a moving boat onto the dock is risky business. It is much safer to remain on deck and “lasso” the dock cleat, or leave a cleated dockline on the dock laying in such a way that it will be easy to pick up with a boat hook from on deck. Successfully catching dock cleats with a dock line can require some practice, so it's a good idea to spend some time perfecting the art before departure. Step off the boat only when the boat has stopped moving in the dock slip.

As an experienced racer / sailor who spends hours each trip balancing on a moving and pitching platform, jumping onto a dock appears to be child's play, but I've seen too many zealous crew members crash and burn after heroically jumping for a dock with line in hand. Present company included many years ago. Radio ahead for a hand, practice, go for the do-over, or what have you, but jumping is always asking for trouble. HTH, Gary

 

[bob daily]

If your going to spend the money for a kicker why not install a Troll Master with a Panther steering and remote? It's a great (one man dog and pony show) ! You can control the boat from any location and handle the lines while the PRINCESS is in the warmth of the cabin. You will be a Hero, and a great tool for that solo fishing trip. And if explained as such will be easy to get approval from the other person on the checking account! Just Bob's thoughts.

 

[baz]

My response to Submariner was assuming his docking at his Everett marina's slip is similar to mine. With this in mind, the waters in his marina much like it is in my Edmond's marina is for the most part dead calm. The only issue there might be with what I said would be if there's a strong wind.

With my R27/OB and R29 CB it was easy to nose the boat close to and even slightly touch the end of my slip and for a person to jump from the boat to the dockside was a safe thing to do. Yes, the person needs to feel comfortable doing this, is healthy and agile, otherwise it's not a good idea.

There are times (many times from my experience) where there's nobody on hand on the dock to help with solo docking, and thus it's tricky especial with wind on the beam pushing you away from the dockside.

Then of course, there's the grappling hook grasping method. 😱

 

[Brian98133]

I use my 9.9 often for a nice, slow cruise. 5-6Kts at WOT on my R23. Absolutely love it! Everything stated so far is exactly accurate with what I've experienced. Definitely louder than the (in my case) F200... but when I'm going slow, I prefer to put hours on the (cheaper to replace/repair) kicker.

When I replace my house bank, I'll be relocating them to the center or starboard due to the infamous "Port List". :roll:

Keeping track of the fuel consumption is definitely something I keep in mind as I'm running the kicker, but at about 1GPH at WOT, it's pretty easy to keep track.

I have the Panther remote for steering, which I love. Our favorite thing is to get the 9.9 going, and head up to the bow (one-at-a-time, for safety reasons) and enjoy the peace and relative quiet that is afforded up there. Having the remote on the lanyard for steering is simply wonderful.

This is my first "single-screw" boat in many, many years... So when I ordered it, the kicker was a mental-must-have for peace of mind. I've had plenty-o-times in my days when I've lost an engine (engine, or prop for that matter), and was super grateful for the extra power to get me back home!

Emergency docking with the Panther system might be interesting. I'll have to look, but I don't believe the linkage has a 'quick release' so I can use the tiller for maneuvering. So I'll be playing around with that in mind, so I'm prepared and practiced for the 'fire drill' that can happen in less-than-optimum weather during docking.
While the remote steering is awesome... it's slow and requires a half second of thought to be sure you're turning in the right direction (I find the remote left/right is opposite what my brain thinks it should be, so most turns are 'trial and error' :shock: )... so the quick turns - and change of thrust - required at docking may be difficult without the free use of the tiller!

If anyone has experience/knowledge with this, please share! :geek:

 

[ButtercupWa]

The scenario that Remedy2 describes is one of the nightmares I have as a new boater. Assuming you find yourself in this situation with no kicker (and it sounds like no tow was there in time) what’s the best procedure? Thanks in advance!

 

[Hamster]

The Panther remote has a quick release coupling. You would need to steer with the tiller.

The weight on one side is very noticeable in my R-23. I make adjustments with the trim tabs and how I add gear. Moving the house batteries to the other side would help.

I have more hours on my kicker than my main motor, but I like to fish primarily in my boat.

 

[baz]

The scenario that Remedy2 describes is one of the nightmares I have as a new boater. Assuming you find yourself in this situation with no kicker (and it sounds like no tow was there in time) what’s the best procedure? Thanks in advance!

Raise a sail and head for the shoreline and beach the boat. 😱 ...or drop anchor if you're in shallow waters and wait for help.

 

[Submariner]

The scenario that Remedy2 describes is one of the nightmares I have as a new boater. Assuming you find yourself in this situation with no kicker (and it sounds like no tow was there in time) what’s the best procedure? Thanks in advance!

If you lose power and have one engine, you drop your anchor. Even if you're in 600 ft of water, It'll eventually grab onto something as the wind and the current move the boat towards the rocks. We think of an anchor more often as an overnight on the hook, it's also a key piece of safety equipment to have onboard.

That being said, I suppose it also depends on where your engine failure occurs. (like, are you navigating in a narrow channel entering a marina where there really is no room for 5:1 scope nor is there time, as opposed to being out in open water, miles from land).

But in general, with an engine failure that sets you adrift, drop the anchor, then call for help on the VHF channel 16. The USCG can issue a Pan-Pan, that'll be heard literally, everywhere. (Their VHF radio covers a lot more area than our onboard radio does).

"Pan-pan: This is the second most important call. This call is made when there is an emergency aboard a vessel, yet there is not immediate danger to life, or the safety of the vessel itself. This includes, but is not limited to injuries on deck, imminent collision that has not yet occurred, or being unsure of vessel's position."

Example: “Pan-Pan, Pan-Pan, Pan-Pan, hello all stations. This is a marine assistance request for a 19-foot center console, adrift at 41 34.52 North, 70 28.45 West in the middle of Vineyard Sound. Any mariners wishing to render assistance should contact the Coast Guard on Channel 16.”

Another tip: I have my fixed VHF radio configured to scan channels 9, 16 and 22, always. I hear these calls for assistance, such as vessel ran out of fuel and is requesting assistance from another boater. Most of the time I only hear the USCG side of the conversation because the vessel is out of my VHF range.

I also have a hand-held VHF radio which is primarily what I use to talk to nearby boats (other boats I may be traveling with) since they're always close (i.e. well within VHF radio range of a handheld). The handheld I use strictly for non-commercial boat to boat communication, channels 68, 69, 71, 72.

If I had to talk to the USCG, I'd use the fixed VHF radio on the boat since it's a 25 watt radio with an 8 foot antenna, and I'd be talking on channel 16 or 22 to them.

 

[Lonster]

Emergency docking with the Panther system might be interesting. I'll have to look, but I don't believe the linkage has a 'quick release' so I can use the tiller for maneuvering. So I'll be playing around with that in mind, so I'm prepared and practiced for the 'fire drill' that can happen in less-than-optimum weather during docking.
:geek:

The panther has a very simple disconnect


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ButtercupWa]

Thanks Submariner, great info!

 

[Remedy2]

The scenario that Remedy2 describes is one of the nightmares I have as a new boater. Assuming you find yourself in this situation with no kicker (and it sounds like no tow was there in time) what’s the best procedure? Thanks in advance!

I was about 100 yards outside the marina when it died. My instinct was to drop anchor but the water was at 2-3 ft swells so I couldn’t get to the bow to untie the safety line on the anchor before I hit the rocks. (I was alone). I immediately radioed in to Edmonds marina and they confirmed they’d send help. So I spent 1/2 hour using a boathook pushing off rocks. I didn’t have time to lift the motor fully so that’s how the SKEG got broken. Hats off to the Edmonds marina dudes - saved my boat and probably my life or serious injury.

We are all friends so I’ll tell you what went wrong. I had just completed a 100 hr service on her which included new water/fuel separator, spark plugs, oil change, and FUEL FILTER. When I took the cover off the motor the fuel filter o-ring was lying on the floor of the engine case. I had run her in the slip for about five to ten mins and she had enough fuel in the line to get out of the marina. Lesson learned and I’m lucky it only cost me a $100 SKEG guard + yard and pullout fees.

And, again, can’t say enough thanks to the Edmonds marina folks.

 

[cliffm]

If your going to spend the money for a kicker why not install a Troll Master with a Panther steering and remote? It's a great (one man dog and pony show) ! You can control the boat from any location and handle the lines while the PRINCESS is in the warmth of the cabin. You will be a Hero, and a great tool for that solo fishing trip. And if explained as such will be easy to get approval from the other person on the checking account! Just Bob's thoughts.

Years ago www had a Bayliner 245 w/long shaft Honda 15hp and a Panther remote. Previous owner had it all installed for fishing, was pretty sweet! and yes, you could "putt" back and crudely maneuver.

 

[bob daily]

Mr. Cliff, The thing that caught my attention was (years ago) ! You might be surprised to know that most companies will update their products to meet the ever demands of the consumer. The new troll master (speed control) and panther (steering control) in there remote pro series is a great addition to those with a kicker. But don't take my word, research! there are many U-tube videos and additional information on the web as to how they work TODAY! I can dock my boat with my kicker, I do not have a Panther steering unit as I use my rudder on a R-21 for steering, it is a little tricky as the unit will stay in gear but at idle I have plenty of time to attach the lines. And in an emergency situation is worth its weight in gold and will pay for itself by not having to be towed. Bob

 

[Dmullen]

I have the 9.9 Yamah with the Panther auxiliary steering and a Cutwater 242. When trying to use the auxiliary motor with the electro steering, my remote did not work. I replaced the battery and it still didn't work. In doing some Tugnuts reading, it was recommended to clean and grease the drive rod...which I did. Now I can't get the drive rod re-connected to the motor drive rod....Any suggestions?