Charging System question

[American Flyer]

Kisea charger / inverter has failed, totally according to the rep., it will not charge at any time and will not supply 110. New one on order but will not arrive for two weeks. I would like to use the boat in the mean time but I need to know what I do and do not have regarding electrical power. Can someone who knows please tell me if the house and thruster batteries are being charged when the engine is running? The information I have with the boat tells me nothing about this (knot). Obviously the engine starting battery is being charged when the alternator is turning, it’s the house and thruster batteries I need information on from someone who actually knows how the boat electrical system is routed. A bonus would be which battery bank powers the Garmin electronics suite, house or engine?

Thanks, Brien
2017 R 29 CB
Kisea ic122055, old software version

P.S.
Sea Leggs!
Thank you SO much for your post! It saved me a lot of time and trouble. My symptoms were EXACTLY the same as yours. Kisea was a little bit of a bother to get ahold of but helped me out as they did you.

 

[KlaassyC]

Assuming your boat is wired similar to my C28, it should charge all the batteries via the alternator. The wiring goes from the alternator to the engine battery, then via a pair of ACR’s to the house and thruster batteries. Essentially it prioritized the engine battery, but once it has reached a specific voltage, it then charges the house and thruster batteries. All your electronics should come off the house battery. One way to confirm is to check the voltage meter after starting the engine. All the banks should increase from a 12.8V resting voltage to approximately 14.2V. This may take a few minutes depending on the engine battery voltage at time of starting.


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[American Flyer]

Great, thanks for the info, I’ll check it today.

 

[knotflying]

The simple answer is yes, all batteries will charge when the engine is running. The electrical system is somewhat complex and I suggest that you totally familiarize yourself on how it works and how things interact with one another. There are several components. I assume you have a generator? Do you have a solar panel? There are relays that open and close for charging the various battery banks as the system is being charged from either engine, charger or solar. Also important is management of your battery usage so that you do not drain the batteries when using items without charging. The inverter will give you 110 volts from the batteries, but using 110 Volts off the batteries will drain them quickly depending on what you are using. Your generator will give you plenty of 110 volts, but using that at night is considered inconsiderate to those anchored near you. There is nothing worse than draining your batteries. That will kill them. A charge of 12.07 volts is considered a full discharge. Never use your parallel switch unless your engine battery is dead. It is there to bail you out if the engine battery is dead and then you can get enough power from your house bank to start. If you have it on while anchored you could possible discharge the engine battery as well. This is a very brief summary.

 

[American Flyer]

Great rudimentary advice but totally lacking on anything new or any hard data.

“The electrical system is somewhat complex and I suggest that you totally familiarize yourself on how it works and how things interact with one another.“

How do you suggest I do this? Kisea has no idea how the boat is wired. Volvo has no idea how the boat is wired. I have no detailed manuals or schematics on the boat wiring. Fluid Motion only has a vague idea how my boat is wired since it seems no two are exactly the same and mine was done 5 years ago. So I would appreciate this detailed information that will totally familiarize me with how it works and how things interact with one another. Please forward it to me asap. Believe it or not, I am capable of grasping complex system information given the proper data. But I cannot pull it out of thin air.

So. My best source for learning this information is this forum from those who already know what I am trying to learn. That is why I am posting these questions here.

 

[American Flyer]

KlaassyC,

It appears to work just as you described, all were being charged while under way, thank you for the detailed, precise, and useful information, void of superfluous suggestion.

 

[KlaassyC]

Happy to help! This forum is a great source of info and it’s nice to be able to give back where I can.


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[OlygirlNav]

There are manuals on the left sidebar for the R29. In the back there are some basic wiring diagrams that will help trace the path. Should be similar for 2017 as current model. See if that helps.

 

[OlygirlNav]

Page 32 has the charging circuit. The diagram and voltmeter should help determine where the issue is located.

 

[CruisingElvinRay]

Great rudimentary advice but totally lacking on anything new or any hard data.

“The electrical system is somewhat complex and I suggest that you totally familiarize yourself on how it works and how things interact with one another.“

How do you suggest I do this? Kisea has no idea how the boat is wired. Volvo has no idea how the boat is wired. I have no detailed manuals or schematics on the boat wiring. Fluid Motion only has a vague idea how my boat is wired since it seems no two are exactly the same and mine was done 5 years ago. So I would appreciate this detailed information that will totally familiarize me with how it works and how things interact with one another. Please forward it to me asap. Believe it or not, I am capable of grasping complex system information given the proper data. But I cannot pull it out of thin air.

So. My best source for learning this information is this forum from those who already know what I am trying to learn. That is why I am posting these questions here.

Nobody on this forum knows exactly how your boat is configured, either. The wiring diagram will give you a guideline, but your boat may not be exactly the same.

Is the boat new to you? Or have you owned it since new? If used, the prior owners may have made changes/additions. Your best bet is to take the diagram to your boat, identify all the components, looking for additions or deletions. That’s the best data you’ve got.


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[American Flyer]

Thank you Olygirl, great info, very helpful. It’s starting to make sense to me.

I do not see where the alternator feeds into the system. Anybody see what I am missing? (Page 32)

I do not have a generator, it’s a northwest edition.

We have had the boat since April. Previous owners were not technically oriented and not helpful learning the boat but it all appears stock, I do not think they did any modifications. They did not use it much, it barley had 300 hours in five years.

I agree with those of you who say to learn the system. Although I am not new to learning highly technical systems, this is our first “large” boat and first time learning a marine system and its operating premises. As you all point out, no one is 100% sure of the final configuration. This, and the lack of a printed manual specific to this individual boat, make it a challenge to do so. The manual and diagrams pointed out by Olygirl are exactly the type of information that I need to “learn the system” and will be very helpful. I do not claim to be highly “IT” literate and do not remember seeing those diagrams previously. I understand no one here knows how my boat is wired. But the positive responses here are certainly helping me figure out how it is!

 

[knotflying]

Yes, Fluid motion info is lacking and wiring configuration changes, but the principal is similar.
Making assumptions:
- You have two house batteries, maybe more, one engine and one thruster.
- The house and engine can be combined if the engine battery has insufficient charge. Always leave parallel of until
needed.
- There are relays that will join all the batteries while charging via any method of charging
- A relay will not close to charge any battery bank that is below (let's say, because I do not have the exact amount) 10
Volts.
- The generator will power all 110V items. However the are amperage limits so running air conditioner and water heater
may overload.
- Solar panels are hooked up to the house and engine bank and can be set for a 50/50 to each or 90/10.
- The inverter/charger (read manual) may have an automatic transfer switch and a standby mode. When you power to
110v and turn on inverter it will power 110v panel
- When anchored out and you use the inverter, you will get 110V and start draining your batteries. When using large
draws I would ether turn on the engine to charge while using for a short period or use your generator instead of the
inverter.
-Always manage your Amp usage when anchored out. Draining your batteries will destroy them and I assume they are not
lithium.
- Read the manuals for all the components. That will give you an understanding how each works.
- When using your inverter the 110v panel may be segregated between shore power and inverter. This is to protect you
from overloading the inverter when not on shore power. Hence when only on inverter some circuits may not work. Most
likely air conditioner and water heater.