Considering R25 or R27

[Gunner065]

Hi there everyone, my wife and I have been looking at the Ranger Tug lineup for a few years, and now that our finances allow, are looking at acquiring a R25 or R27. My intent is not to tow it around the country, but to sail from Vancouver Island and explore from Washington state to Alaska, in some level of comfort. I have no power cruising experience, aside from driving Navy ships for the past 2 decades in these waters.

I'm torn between a used model with an inboard diesel or the newer models with O/B motors. From a range standpoint, which is better (diesel?), or is there a marginal difference?

If buying new, would you recommend a vessel with an installed generator/inverter or just acquire a separate one and stow it on the back and use as required?

Any insight/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

 

[scross]

I’ll reply to two of your questions.
1. If you want a generator go with the factory option. Period.
2. The R-25 O/B is not a long duration between marinas cruiser in my option. For one, the black water holding tank in really tiny. If you go O/B the R-27 O/B is a much better fit for extended cruising.

I have the inboard diesel and love it! Lots of minor issues associated with the differences from an extended cruising standpoint between the I/B and O/B models. PM me If you want a list of those differences.

Regardless, I think the R-27 Classic would be an amazing boat to take to Alaska! If we ever move up to the R-27 Classic, I could see us in Sitka!

 

[BradOwens]

If you want to cruise long distances, I would definitely go with the inboard diesel. The outboard models are faster, but in my opinion, the hull shape is not as good for slow, economical cruising.

If you don't plan on trailering, you might want to look at going larger, with a Ranger Tug 29 or 31. The extra foot and a half of beam makes a huge difference in interior space, and stability at rest. They also have a walk around island queen bed rather than a V-berth like the 27. R29s built before 2015 had the classic styling, and look nearly identical to the 31. The older 29s, and all 31s, have a sliding pilothouse door that make line handling much easier.

As for the generator, in this part of the world, you don't need air conditioning, so your 110 volt power requirements while away from port are very few. The Ranger Tug models that don't have generators have inverters to convert battery power to 110 volt power for the microwave and any small appliances you may bring on board.

One other reason you may want to go with a 27, 29, or 31 rather than a 25 is that the three larger models have ovens. The 25 only has a cooktop.

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If you're not in a rush to buy, once the border opens back up, Anacortes Yacht Charters has a 27 and two 29s (one classic, and one new style) available for rent. A few days chartering each would give you a chance to really evaluate the differences. You can check out their website for more information or just to look at pictures of the different models. (Full disclosure - The 29 classic SERENDIPITY is mine. If you want to get onboard, even just to look, send me a private message.)

 

[Salty7]

I agree with the prior posters - the inboard diesel is a better choice for long distance cruising and the larger tankage is a really important part of that package. My wife and I chartered an R27 and thoroughly enjoyed it. We then bought an R25-SC and are totally happy with it. I asked my wife if she was sure before we bought the 25, our 25-SC just has a cooktop, no oven and a shorter head compartment than the 27. She said the 25-SC will be great for us. I put a BBQ on a rail in the cockpit and we have enjoyed many great meals on the boat. We had just sold a Bayliner 4788, that we really loved, when we bought our 25 and are amazed every day by how much we enjoy the 25-SC, we are on season 3 with the boat and still really enjoying it. My Admiral loves it and a happy Admiral is the key to having fun with whichever boat you choose.

 

[Red Raven]

We took our R27 Classic to Alaska from Washington last summer. Had a fantastic trip, the boat made the trip without a problem and is a good match for us. Feel free to send me a PM if you have questions.

Curt

 

[bluestreak]

The 27 at AYC is mine and you are welcome to check it out.
I live in Utah so AYC will have to give you the tour.
Bill

 

[Gunner065]

Thanks all for the comments, appreciated.

Based on the comments, I am leaning on the R27 with inboard motor. Unfortunately, I can't travel to the US at this time (my work won't allow) so it looks like the buy will have to wait until restrictions are no longer in place.

As for chartering, what is required from a certification standpoint in the US? My military qualifications (in Canada) is equivalent to the Transport Canada pleasure Craft Operator Card. Do Chartering companies usually require completion of in-house training before you can charter their vessels?

Cheers

 

[scross]

You might want to check this one just down the road from you in Sidney to get a close look at the R-27 Classic. It’s a high hour (670 hrs) for a 2016. Maybe they could give you a leisurely sea trial in it.
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2016/r ... 7-3583994/

PS: Two summers ago we were given a 30 minute tour of the Cougar while it was docked at Ganges. Impressive training ship!

 

[Toki]

Gunner, regarding your chartering question, I also have an R27 in charter at Anacortes (Ship Harbor Yacht Charters), and last year it was with AYC. I believe AYC and SHYC are similar in what they're looking for in a charter captain.

They'll ask for your boating resume to see what experience you've had with boats of the class you want to charter. Any certifications or classes you've had would be a plus. Based on that experience, they'll either say you're good to go (after a quick check-out trip) or they'll recommend further training. Both AYC and SHYC offer several training alternatives:

- Several extra hours of orientation with the check-out captain
- Classes, offered by AYC/SHYC or elsewhere
- First full day of charter with the check-out captain (drop him off at Friday Harbor, he/she takes the ferry back)

One way or another, they'll get you on the boat. The nice thing about the R27s or R29 is they're the smallest and easiest handling boats in the fleet, so the requirements for bareboat chartering are less stringent than the larger yachts.

By the way, that R27 in Sidney looks like a pretty good deal!

 

[Gunner065]

You might want to check this one just down the road from you in Sidney to get a close look at the R-27 Classic. It’s a high hour (670 hrs) for a 2016. Maybe they could give you a leisurely sea trial in it.
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2016/r ... 7-3583994/

PS: Two summers ago we were given a 30 minute tour of the Cougar while it was docked at Ganges. Impressive training ship!

Thanks scross, going for a "sanity" drive today and will go have a look. From the website, it looks in great shape and well maintained.

In a pleasure craft, what is considered "high" hours for an inboard engine?

Based on my own research, the Volvo D3 200Hp has a life span of approx. 20,000 running hrs. I understand that this figure is a forecast based on the manufacturer's best estimate and decades in this field, but I would imagine that if maintenance is conducted regularly and the engine is operated at no more than 80% max power, most of the time, than it should match that figure and than some.

 

[Toki]

My 2016 R27 with the D3 220 HP has 504 hours on it. I don't think 670 hours is excessive for that year. Just make sure it's had it's annual maintenance and oil changes. When we bought ours, in addition to the boat survey we also had a Volvo technician do an engine survey, including sending samples of the engine and transmission oil to a lab.

20000 sounds like a real high target for engine life to me. Think about it in terms of a car averaging 40 MPH, that would be 800,000 miles!

 

[bluestreak]

My 2006 Duramax diesel engine has around 5-6000 hours and close to 250,000 miles.
Plenty of miles towing in that total.
I expect it to last a very long time.

 

[scross]

Gunner,
By high engine hours I meant relative to other 2016 Ranger Tugs. We spend 35 days a year cruising. We average 2.2 engine hours per day. That’s 75 hours per year on the engine. Assuming that specific 2016 R27 to be 3.5 years old, it’s averaging 190 hours per year.
At our 2.2 hours per day that would be 87 days a year of use. Or, if the boat was run 4.5 engine hours per day of use that would be 43 days of use per year. Either way, I think that’s higher than normal use for a R27. My guess is the boat was used for a lot of fishing.
On the flip side, there’s an older “fresh water” 2011 R27 for sale down in the SF Bay Area that has 320 hours total time. That’s a boat that wasn’t used much!

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2011/r ... 7-3669638/

Higher usage only is important if the usage was rough and if they were too busy using the boat to keep up with maintenance...

PS: Our Journey, a 2009, is just now coming up on 790 hours.

 

[bluestreak]

When we bought our 2016, R-27 late last year, it had about 754 hours on the engine.
I had no experience with what was an acceptable or excessive number of hours for a marine diesel on a 3 year old boat.
Diesel engines are built for endurance and a long life span IF maintained properly.
It ran fine during our sea trial prior to purchase and had no negative comments from the marine surveyor.

 

[Red Raven]

I would consider 190 hours per year normal. That’s about what we average, not including our trip up the Inside Passage and no winter boating.

Curt

 

[scross]

Curt,
Not to hijack the thread but how many nights are spending on Red Raven to get 190 hours/yr on the engine?

 

[BB marine]

Based on my own research, the Volvo D3 200Hp has a life span of approx. 20,000 running hrs. I understand that this figure is a forecast based on the manufacturer's best estimate and decades in this field, but I would imagine that if maintenance is conducted regularly and the engine is operated at no more than 80% max power, most of the time, than it should match that figure and than some.

2000 to 4000 hrs is a more realist number for longevity of the D3 200hp. 3000 hrs is projected longevity by Volvo based on 10% at 100% load and the rest of operation at a mix of 85% to 20 % load. This is a quote from Ranger Tug & Cutwater Boats Customer service in a question I asked in regard to engine compartment temperatures and engine longevity.
"I talked to Volvo. They rate the aluminum block diesels for 3000-4000 hours so looks like things will be just fine."

A better gauge of longevity would be fuel burn instead of hours. 12000 gallons of fuel. Using fuel burn cruising at 80% load but averaging 6 gph figure approximately 2000hrs run time cruising at 50% load but averaging 4 gph approximately 3000 hrs. cruising at 40 % load but averaging 2.5 gph you may exceed 4000hrs.of operation. Normal boating engine hours would be 100 hrs. Most engine manufactures for recreational use maintenance intervals at 100hrs or once a season. I believe Rangers and Cutwater owners average higher. I would agree with Curt 190 hrs is about average in the PNW. It is much harder to do that in the midwest where we have about 4 full months of boating. 4 years of cruising we have 430 hrs. I'm hoping to double that in the next year with the hopes of winter boating in the south.

 

[ALICE J]

Be wary of buying a boat just because of low engine hours. There could be many unseen faults that may exist in a lightly used vessel for instance there could be condensation in the oil’s and the fuel, there could be a cracked Impeller blade because of lack of rotation as it was sitting for a while, there could be corrosion in various linkages, in electrical connections, in electronics . A regularly use vessel may be a better value as opposed to one that has been lightly used or in frequently used.

 

[Red Raven]

Curt,
Not to hijack the thread but how many nights are spending on Red Raven to get 190 hours/yr on the engine?

Hi Al,

Our average engine hours per year work out to about 180 hours so a bit less than the 190 you estimate on the boat for sale. We spend a few more nights in a typical year than you but we also do day trips as the boat is at a marina all summer that is easily accessible and our typical range is greater. On our overnight trips (maybe 40 nights total) we spend about an average of about 3.5 Engine hours per day. We also do about a dozen day trips at an average of 4 hours each. We range north to the Broughtons and south to Olympia in a typical year on our overnight trips.

Last year was an aberration as we put more than 400 hours on the boat including a trip up the Inside Passage. We now have 1150 hours on the engine that we first used in 2015. 2014 was with previous owners who only ran 30 engine hours total.

We hope to see you out there again this year!

Safe travels,

Curt

 

[Gunner065]

Thank you all for your input.

There a few R25 and R25SC available in our area (Sydney, BC). We went for a drive yesterdays and walked around marinas and looked at all the Ranger Tugs we could lay our eyes on, there's tons.

The ones for sale and in great shape, were already sold...the other ones, not in so great shape, were sitting at the "sales" dock without much interest.

We approached a 2016 R31 and chatted with its owners. After talking about Ranger Tugs for close to 45 mins, we decided that R25 Classic or R27 (2012-2016) will be the tug we purchase. Now, just a matter of finding it.