Cruising speed and fuel burn R27

[localboy808]

New to the forum. We currently own a C-Dory 25 Cruiser but are considering moving up to an R27. From researching these fine boats I’ve noticed a lot of owners that “cruise” at very high speeds. Seems 20 knots and higher is not uncommon. You all pass us out on Puget Sound. 😀 For our current boat, 16 knots is fast and we usually cruise at 10-12. This seems like the C-Dory hull’s happy range and our fuel burn (single 150 OB @ 3500-4500 rpm) is 5-7 gallons per hour. I realize the 27 is heavier, with larger displacement engine options, so fuel burn will probably be less efficient, but I don’t want the fuel costs of a gas burning, speedster boat. We are not “go fasts” and I’m concerned a move up will negatively impact our fuel consumption to the point of being a financial detriment to our cruising. We are looking for more comfort but with the ability to still be able to tow the boat, if/when needed. I have a proper tow vehicle (2023 F250) that could easily tow a trailered 27 ‘cross country. We currently slip our C-Dory from May thru September and then store it at our home for fall/winter.

My questions are:
-Does the R27 hull not perform well at slower speeds?
-What speeds to current 27 owners regularly travel?
-Are lower “trawler” speeds not comfortable or efficient?
-What’s fuel burn at these higher speeds?

Thanks for any input & experience.

 

[venajeff]

I usually cruise at around 25 to 27 knots because it is the best fuel economy while going fast. If sea conditions won't allow it then I will go between 7 and 9 knots. The issue that R27s have is in moderate sea conditions the hull can handle going 14 to 16 knots but it costs a lot in fuel because your not completely up on a plane. Changing up propellers can help if you need to cruise at those speeds.
I don't have any problem going slow when needed and I quite enjoy going fast when conditions allow.
Search "Channel Surfing" and you will find all the fuel burn rates, Martin has done very thorough measurements over all the speed ranges.

 

[Submariner]

@localboy808
I generally cruise between 15 and 18gph, at 23-28 knots.
This past July, we took the boat from Everett to Desolation Sound, 225 miles, 135 gallons of gas, in a day. 10 hours of driving. We averaged 1.67mpg each way driving into the tide both directions. The boat can do 7 knots all day long and sip fuel around 2.5mpg if you prefer.

With a PowerTech 5 blade prop, the boat handles bad seas well and is able to stay on plane in the 12-18mph range.

I have data sheets published on our website that contain fuel burn rates, WOT speeds, of the R27, and other models, with various different props on the boat.

Propeller | LetsGoChannelSurfing

www.letsgochannelsurfing.com

A great video to watch to see various weather conditions and handling of the R27 would be our trip from Wrangell to Ketchikan.

 

[HookedUp]

@localboy808
I generally cruise between 15 and 18gph, at 23-28 knots.
This past July, we took the boat from Everett to Desolation Sound, 225 miles, 135 gallons of gas, in a day. 10 hours of driving. We averaged 1.67mpg each way driving into the tide both directions. The boat can do 7 knots all day long and sip fuel around 2.5mpg if you prefer.

With a PowerTech 5 blade prop, the boat handles bad seas well and is able to stay on plane in the 12-18mph range.

I have data sheets published on our website that contain fuel burn rates, WOT speeds, of the R27, and other models, with various different props on the boat.

Propeller | LetsGoChannelSurfing

www.letsgochannelsurfing.com

A great video to watch, to see various weather conditions and handling of the R27 would be our trip from Wrangell to Ketchikan.

Just got my PowerTech prop and plan to install right after Labor Day. Looking forward to improved numbers and being able to stay on plane at lower speeds.

 

[Jcat2010]

It is all about sea condition and your personal comfort. I run with stock prop on a stock yamaha F300, bottom painted. On days when the wind is under 10kts and the waves are 1' or less, I can run between 27 and 30 MPH, at about 1.6-1.8 MPG. When the wind and seas kick up to 2-3 ft, I find that we could go fast and get beat up, or we slow down to 12-15 mph and take a bit of a hit on MPG, but surprisingly 1.2-1.4 MGP is easily achievable. In the end, it impacts range more than it impacts my wallet. Just my 2C

 

[serendipity]

We have a 2023 R27 OB and after 3 years of cruising we have averaged about 25 nautical MPH. We were sailors prior to our conversion and 6.5 knots was the average. With our R27, we can feel like eating a York Peppermint Patty (“wind whipping through our hair”) when we want!

Seriously, we let seaboard and wind condition determine our speed. When we can get up on plane, we usually average 24 - 25 knots (4500 rpm) at 1.5 - 1.7 nmpg. However, we often “slow boat” at 7 - 9 knots (2000 - 2500 rpm) at 1.7 - 2.2 nmpg.

As I said, we let conditions dictate our speed choices. We DO like the capability to get somewhere quick when necessary. Yes, 25 - 30 knots is quick compared to 7 - 12 knots, but one gets used to / comfortable with the sensation.

After 3 seasons of cruising, fuel costs have comprised less than 35% of our cruising costs. We are admittedly frugal New Englanders and marina costs in our region may be on the high side.

We LOVE the comfort, functionality, versatility, and, yes, economy of our R27. We were big boat sailors previously, and we go farther, see more places, and, most definitely spend less doing so in our 2023 R27 OB.

I would heartily encourage your consideration of the R27 OB. Channel Surfing is a one of the great resources along with all the fellow owners on TugNuts. We also had tremendous support / guidance from our dealer and Fluid Motion (namely Andrew Custis).

If you want to discuss our experience at greater length, please either DM me or email at serendipity.r27ob@gmail.com.

 

[BB marine]

Going from a flat bottom 25' C-Dory with a max 150 Hp outboard and cruising with fuel economy @ 2.2 to 2.5 mpg and smelling the roses at a comfortable cruising speed of 12kts or 14mph is not going to happen with a deep-V hull with a 300 hp outboard. The Ranger hulls are bow high riding hulls and need to be at full planning speed to see out the windshield and get marginal fuel economy.

( A characteristic of all Livingston hulls. Bayliner,Capri and Ciera lines as well as the 32, 37, and the 45 and 47 pilothouse models (80's). All bow high, hard to plane hulls with the exception of the runabout Capri hulls. The Bayliner hulls required special trim tabs to plane properly. Drop fin tabs that Bennet made specifically for Bayliner and called them "Bennet Bayliner tabs". When I owned my Cutwater I installed them on my Cutwater to help the bow to come down and not point to the stars. )

My point is not to criticize the hull. It has a lot to like with its Swiss army knife amenities and the awesome looking lines of a Tug boat that planes! It's just not a slow cruising economical running boat. Take away the tug boat look and you have a planning hull that is in a market with other pocket cruisers with outboards and stern drives. Sea Ray, Regal, Monterey, Jeanneau, Beneteau, Bayliner Explorer....

Looking for a bit more comfort and the cruising you have enjoyed with your 25'C-Dory. Economical, slow cruising but the ability to cruise at 16kts when you want to move. Unfortunately Fluid motions niche in this market is gone. They had it but left it behind when the outboard came in and the diesels went out. The positive to this is there are some in the used boat market that are still clean and shine with plenty of cruising hours left. IMO the best boat Fluid Motion built was the C28 Cutwater. It had the D4 Volvo (great engine) fuel economy was awesome at 7.5 kts and as good if not better than the 25' C-Dory at 14kts and would run 18 to 20 kts at high cruise speed if properly propped and drop fins or 12X18" trim tabs replacing the factory 12x12". It tows better than a 27' Ranger Tug outboard because it has better weight distribution with the Volvo D4 engine inboard compared to the 300 hp Yamaha hanging off the back of the boat 38' back from the trailer hitch ball.

Just my opinion! I purchased a C26 Cutwater in 2016. It was an average at best built boat. It was underpowered with a D3 220 Hp Volvo. If I had it to do over again today and had my choice of all the Fluid Motion products available today I would have to go to the used market and start looking for a C28. Same interior as my C26 but bigger cockpit, better performance, better handling and fuel efficient ! You can save yourself about 100K too when comparing used 2021 C28 to a New R27 outboard. The best part the C28 if maintained will not loose value. Again Just my opinion.

 

[venajeff]

I have never had a problem with the bow riding high and obstructing my visibility. The only time I use the trim tabs is to lower the bow to handle sea conditions better. I also feel like the fuel economy of the R27OB is very reasonable.

 

[Submariner]

Going from a flat bottom 25' C-Dory with a max 150 Hp outboard and cruising with fuel economy @ 2.2 to 2.5 mpg and smelling the roses at a comfortable cruising speed of 12kts or 14mph is not going to happen with a deep-V hull with a 300 hp outboard. The Ranger hulls are bow high riding hulls and need to be at full planning speed to see out the windshield and get marginal fuel economy.

Just my opinion! I purchased a C26 Cutwater in 2016.

The Ranger Tug R27 bow does not run high. I've never had a problem seeing over the bow at pretty much any speed. They are not deep V hulls.
My last boat, a Maxum 2200 SR3, was a deep V planing hull. 14 years I had that boat, getting up on plane would always bring the bow up so high I couldn't see in front of me. The R27 doesn't behave that way. I have great visibility.

 

[bob daily]

Mr. Martin (Submariner)
You stated that your boat does not cruise / run bow high and then posted pictures of it with a 15 to 18 degree up bubble while cruising. Please explain your definition of running bow high as I’m confused.
If the bow is out of the water and the stern is squatting, many of us would consider that as running bow high!
Thanks for your reply on this. Bob

 

[NorthernFocus]

Make sure that you make an informed decision. Trading up for comfort is an expensive, complicated proposition. Every time I have to work on something on my C25 it makes me miss my C-Dory 22. I've seriously considered trading back "down" to a 25 C-Dory so I could just enjoy going on the water and quit being a boat mechanic 😕 That said my bride loves it. She won't even consider trading for another boat.

 

[Bob&Jilly]

We are on the Columbia River so currents and tides are a strong consideration when it comes to fuel economy.
That said, ,we typically cruse at 7 to 10 knots,1850 RPM , old sailor comfort speed. Going with the current we can get up to 5 plus MPG , against the current about 2 to 3.5 MPG. We have a 300HP Suzuki which we love, very quite and sips fuel.
We also like the abilty to get home fast or got further at 27 to 30 which is our other sweet spot.
The comfort for long term cruising balances well with the fuel economy for us and of course love the look of the boat.

 

[JMarshallR25]

Mr. Martin (Submariner)
You stated that your boat does not cruise / run bow high and then posted pictures of it with a 15 to 18 degree up bubble while cruising. Please explain your definition of running bow high as I’m confused.
If the bow is out of the water and the stern is squatting, many of us would consider that as running bow high!
Thanks for your reply on this. Bob

Here is a photo of an R25 from the company website. I think this is fairly representative of how these boats ride. On my boat i have the Seakeeper Ride system. The cruising pitch is adjustable with engine trim and with the SKR controls. Factory standard boats have basic trim tabs that can be used similarly along with engine trim. I can't think why the R27 would perform substantially differently compared to the R25. Martin is correct that visibility is unobstructed at all speeds.

P.S. Channel Surfing seems to be operated as a mini "expedition yacht" rather than a day cruiser. Maybe it has some extra "junk in the trunk" causing the low stern. 🙂

 

[Submariner]

Mr. Martin (Submariner)
You stated that your boat does not cruise / run bow high and then posted pictures of it with a 15 to 18 degree up bubble while cruising. Please explain your definition of running bow high as I’m confused.
If the bow is out of the water and the stern is squatting, many of us would consider that as running bow high!
Thanks for your reply on this. Bob

The question is about visibility. I can always see over the bow and have visibility. I also don't see how you're measuring 18 degrees. Regardless, it's visibility that matters.

I've been in a Cutwater 28 underway, that bow runs high, as defined by "it was hard to see what's in front of the boat as the boat picks up speed".
I don't have that issue with my boat. I can see out front easily, even when popping up on plane.

I don't have video or photographs of my Maxum 2200 SR3 popping up on plane... but for 14 year driving that boat... prior to popping up on plane I'd have to visually make sure I had a clear run-way, as once I hit the throttle I would no longer be able to see over the bow until the boat settled on plane. My R27 doesn't behave this way.

My autoglide also measures pitch of the boat. When I load the boat heavy, it'll get to 4 degrees pitch angle. Usually it's around 2degrees. When sitting at the dock, it usually reads -0.2 degrees. On plane, I'm at 2.9 degrees.

Wide Open Throttle, 2.9 degree pitch angle.

Boat moored on the dock at Roche Harbor, -0.2 degree pitch angle.

 

[Submariner]

P.S. Channel Surfing seems to be operated as a mini "expedition yacht" rather than a day cruiser. Maybe it has some extra "junk in the trunk" causing the low stern. 🙂

We often go out for a weekend as well. But you're right, we rarely go out for a day trip. 🙂

As far as extra junk in the trunk, that depends. Crab and shrimp season pile on the weight in the cockpit. But those are limited seasons.
We always have 3 adults and 3 dogs on board. Melissa, our daughter, sleeps in the cave. That's her space/bedroom. I had some friends make the comment to me "OMG. where do you store stuff since you don't have the cave to use?". I store very little in the center cockpit lazarette as it's often difficult to access when on the boat at anchor or underway. It's mostly empty.

Since SE Alaska 2023, where I burned 15% more in fuel than Lemondrop did (another R27 that traveled with us). Janet solo's her R27. Less weight = 15% savings of fuel. I'm not as worried about the cost of the fuel as much as I am in the reduced range that results. Better fuel efficiency gets me further away from a fuel dock for our "expedition yacht" trips. I can safely go 200 miles now at 28mph on a tank of gas (about 120 gallons of gas consumed out of 150 gallon tank). I can go 300miles if I slow-boat on that 120gallons of fuel.

We do things like run around with 1/2 a tank of freshwater to cut the weight. We went through the boat earlier this season, "when was the last time we touched this? off the boat it goes..." (except for safety equipment, obviously).

 

[venajeff]

I like to run my boat as light as possible. The only thing I never sacrifice for weight reduction is beer.

 

[localboy808]

Thanks all. This is the kind of information I was seeking. Real world numbers. It's a lot to consider for us. The Admiral probably doesn't care. She's pretty happy with the KISS of our C-Dory. But when sea states suck, like an outgoing against the wind, the C-Dory rides like an angry bull on steroids; the light weight and low deadrise bottom result in the boat acting like a cork. Most miserable. We have done hours like that and it's not fun. I've also grown tired of crawling into the tight V-berth and it's worse since I got a knee replaced last fall.

I never considered a diesel Ranger/Cutwater. I'll have to do some reading up on this option. Outboards have always just been around, easier and I do my own maintenance etc. Honestly, if it came to that we'd probably just look for a suitable trawler like a Monk 36 or a Grand Banks. Yes, we'd lose the ability to trailer but at that point, the comfort & room really begins to be a benefit.

 

[Bob&Jilly]

Thanks all. This is the kind of information I was seeking. Real world numbers. It's a lot to consider for us. The Admiral probably doesn't care. She's pretty happy with the KISS of our C-Dory. But when sea states suck, like an outgoing against the wind, the C-Dory rides like an angry bull on steroids; the light weight and low deadrise bottom result in the boat acting like a cork. Most miserable. We have done hours like that and it's not fun. I've also grown tired of crawling into the tight V-berth and it's worse since I got a knee replaced last fall.

I never considered a diesel Ranger/Cutwater. I'll have to do some reading up on this option. Outboards have always just been around, easier and I do my own maintenance etc. Honestly, if it came to that we'd probably just look for a suitable trawler like a Monk 36 or a Grand Banks. Yes, we'd lose the ability to trailer but at that point, the comfort & room really begins to be a benefit.

I see your point . What pushed us toward the R27 OB was the outboard and trailering ease.. We are able to take much longer trips with a 30 MPH option then we would with 8 to 12 for our max. We still like going slowly most of the time as well.That said, I do like the extra room in the larger Boats, for the 2 of us our boat is prefect and the good gas consumption is a bonus.
It is always a balance.

 

[localboy808]

“I generally cruise between 15 and 18gph, at 23-28 knots.”

As a comparison, when I’m running our C-Dory at 5-7 gph, I’m cruising at 10-12 knots. Three times the fuel burn for just over twice the speeds.

 

[NorthernFocus]

“I generally cruise between 15 and 18gph, at 23-28 knots.”

As a comparison, when I’m running our C-Dory at 5-7 gph, I’m cruising at 10-12 knots. Three times the fuel burn for just over twice the speeds.

Three times the boat at twice the speed. The R27 is at least 3x the displacement of the CD22. Probably more than 3x. So moving 3x the mass at twice the speed is quite a feat. Not only that but at 2x the speed will probably only beat you up 1/4 as much. 🙂