Cummins Onan Corrosion and Warranty Support

[randalltgroom]

I own a 2014 R31CB that I purchased new in September, 2013. Aside from a few teething issues, the boat has been excellent and support from my dealer (Seagate in Stuart, FL) and Ranger has been excellent.
I equipped the boat with the Cummins Onan generator which I put a total of 97 hours on, over the past several years. Every year, I had the generator maintained, changing oil, filters, etc. per the manual. In December of 2015, the generator would not start. (I always started a minimum of once every two weeks, just to keep it exercised) After several weeks of waiting, my local Cummins authorized repair center came out and said, the generator was going to have to be removed due to "serious issues." Once they got it in their shop they called me to see the damage. Virtually the entire unit is covered with corrosion. Several fittings were clearly not secure and salt water had been leaking and spraying around the unit for likely a long period of time. Ultimately, the corrosion wiped out all of the electrical components which is why the unit quit starting. The unit is clearly beyond economic repair at this point. My mechanic who did my maintenance said that the unit is so well sound shielded, that he never detected anything amiss.
Of course the failure occurred when the unit was three months out of warranty.

Long story short, I have reached out to Ranger and Cummins requesting a new unit under warranty as the circumstances leading to the failure had been building up for a long time, clearly during the warranty period. Ranger has been supportive and sympathetic but Cummins is the supplier that makes the warranty decisions. They have been painfully unresponsive but ultimately denied the claim and said that I should have detected this problem while the unit was under warranty.

Not a happy camper here. So I suppose I would caution all Tugnuts who have this generator to beware of hidden corrosion, particularly those units that were built in this time period.

 

[R Baker]

Not a good story, sorry to hear. Can you be more specific about the corrosion - leaking fittings, a failed exchanger etc. What might we look for ?

 

[SGIDAVE]

they called me to see the damage. Virtually the entire unit is covered with corrosion. Several fittings were clearly not secure and salt water had been leaking and spraying around the unit for likely a long period of time. Ultimately, the corrosion wiped out all of the electrical components which is why the unit quit starting. The unit is clearly beyond economic repair at this point.

Hello Randall,

Sorry to hear of your catastrophic genset failure.

Pictures would be very helpful if you could post a few. The owners of the involved/affected Cummins units then would know more specifically what to look for...

Will you replace with an identical unit or another brand? Was the KW size adequate?

/dave

 

[Levitation]

Sorry to be blunt.
Seems to me your mechanic has a lot more explaining to do than Onan or Ranger Tug.
Maintenance is more than just changing the oil.
Obviously, paying to have the maintenance done is not working for you and raises questions about everything that was 'maintenanced'.
Might be time for you to join the rest of us in the greasy wrench club :mrgreen:

 

[HappyPlace]

What a terrible situation! I had some serious issues with another boat a few years ago and I feel your pain! I would have to agree with some of the others regarding the mechanic and the preventative maintenance. It is difficult to find a technician that cares for your boat the way he would care for his own. I would like to begin doing all the PM and winterizing myself, but this can be a bit challenging considering there is no owners manual for this boat, other than the factory equipment manuals. I too would be interested in any photos you might have of this problem, as I also own a 2014 R31 CB with the same generator.

 

[Jake]

What a bummer. I am the non-mechanical type who would rely on a mechanic to catch such things. Would the damage be visible just by removing the covers or would one need to look much deeper than that?

Jake

 

[randalltgroom]

Regarding the maintenance, we did accomplish everything laid out in the manual and according to the schedule. Should he have dug deeper and seen the damage? Obviously, I wish he had and will be looking over his shoulder in the future. Or yes, maybe I need to pick up a wrench!

Having said that, there is no doubt that this was a factory defect that was quietly taking it's toll for a long time. Had we caught in 3 months earlier, warranty would have been in place and we would not be having this conversation.

What really gets me is that Cummins is just running from it and saying "too bad."

Also, regarding the unit, it was a 5KW and did a fine job of running everything I ever needed. It was quiet and worked great, up until December.

I'll post some pictures as soon as I figure out how to do it. 🙂

 

[Bruce Moore]

I'll post some pictures as soon as I figure out how to do it. 🙂

Getting a User Photo Album for your Ranger Tug is easy but it requires submitting a request from within the site structure.

1. Sign on to the site, if you aren't already.

2. Select the User Control Panel link from the upper left corner of any page. Note: On the home page, this link is in your user menu.

3. Click the Usergroups tab, then select the radio button next to the User Albums group.
Scroll down, choose "Join selected" in the drop-down menu, and click the Submit button.

Once you do this, an email is automatically sent to the administrator (me). That message will trigger my ability to approve your request, and you'll receive an email indicating your membership in the User Albums group has been activated.

I'll watch for the message, and look forward to seeing your pictures.

Cheers,

Bruce

 

[randalltgroom]

Thanks, submitted, standing by.

 

[randalltgroom]

Pictures now posted if I did it right 🙂

 

[SGIDAVE]

Pictures now posted if I did it right 🙂

Hello Randall,

THANKS for posting the pics.

Can you identify WHAT failed to cause so much corrosion? Sea water was spraying around, right?

It's a sickening thought that such a nice genset is totally ruined 😱 :cry:

dave

 

[Jake]

Thanks for the pictures and further explanation. When I read "fittings" I was just thinking hose clamps, my bad (never seen a generator up close and personal).

 

[randalltgroom]

Thanks for your feedback and responses.

Our generators are well shielded. That is what makes them so quiet. The downside is that we don't normally see them up close and personal like this.

And yes, salt water was spraying around the unit which caused this corrosion. Sickening.

 

[Boatdreamer]

Very sorry to hear about your generator. I had a problem like yours on the raw water pump on our Mase 2.7 in our R27. I noticed some of the brass pump starting to turn green and there was salt starting to buildup down by the frame. It was the raw water pump lip seal leaking and spraying salt water on the front side of the genset. I was lucky because I caught it before any corrosion started and replaced the lip seal. A good cleaning and spray with CRC all was well again. Good luck.

Tim and Donna
Gratitude

 

[Levitation]

Well, due to my having been hosed by Cummins to the tune of thousands of dollars on a warranty claim, all I can say is welcome to the club.

I grew up on a dirt poor farm. Our best machinery looked a lot worse than your generator. It looks tough, but I only see surface corrosion/rust. I don't see erosion of metal that would scrap the motor.
The likely reason the motor failed to start is damaged circuit boards and/or shorted electrical connections. Parts are available. Now, I cannot tell from the pictures if the alternator is fatally injured - and I strongly suspect it is not, they are pretty tough. First order of business is to get the motor to run.

In any event it has to come out. Pull it out and get it on the bench. Clean the corrosion off the surfaces. Pull all the shrouds, electrical connectors, spades, lugs, etc. and clean them, repaint bare metal, replace solenoids, etc. and run the motor. At that point it will start looking less hopeless and someone with experience can evaluate if the motor and alternator are really scrap (unlikely).

If you scrap it out, likely someone at the scrap yard will take it home and have it running before you can install the new unit. Also, consider that RV / Motor-coach repair shops have way more experience with reviving generators than most marine mechanics.

Then you come to the issue of replacing the electronic-boards/solenoids/etc/. Certainly you can order the parts from Onan. It would be nice if Cummin/Onan would contribute. If not you have three options. File an insurance claim (if you have not). File a lawsuit. Or pay for everything out of pocket. Hang in there bud, it is not hopeless.

 

[JeffE]

Looking at the pictures, I agree with Denny-O -- the corrosion doesn't look all that pervasive. Sure, the flywheel is rusty -- so what. Some of the solenoids look like they may be a problem. The electrical connections definitely need to be cleaned up.

The alternator is the $64K question -- if the bearings failed, bad news. The windings are probably coated, so they're probably OK. I'd say it's worth some effort to get it started and see how it feels. The suggestion to use an RV shop, if you don't want to try yourself, may be a great one. But if you can clean it up yourself, you may be surprised, these are pretty tough little guys.

Good luck!

Jeff

 

[randalltgroom]

Thanks for the supportive and instructive comments. Will hang in there and get things going one way or another.

 

[R Baker]

This gen set has a Kubota Z402 (I think) engine; so a Kubota tractor dealer may be of help getting the engine up and running.

 

[hughesdave123]

If you have an Amish community nearby , take it to them , they will have that thing up and repaired in no time . The Amish community where I live they repair lots of engines that have been sunk for weeks underwater . They get a lot of work from the local marine repair shops out here in Solomon's Island.

 

[jroyle]

Thanks for the pictures. I showed them to my mechanic and his response was "OMG". He said he is ashamed that a mechanic would let an engine and its components "rot" away like that. I agree with his assertion that the mechanic should be given his walking papers.