Cutwater 30 ocean certification

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Gerr413

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Fluid Motion Model
C-24 C
Non-Fluid Motion Model
Cutwayer 30 s
Vessel Name
Hay jude
MMSI Number
C3030k516
Been looking for the ocean certification of the cutwater 30, I'm thinking it's B certified if it is certified at all. is there a sticker somewhere?
 
From NMMA (National Marine Manufacturers Asssn) website on CE certification:
"CE Certification is required for all recreational boats entering or being sold in the European Union. Manufacturers must test and document to ensure conformity to all applicable European directives and requirements. "

From MJM Yachts Ocean A certification:
"Boats sold in the U.S. do not have to be ISO CE certified... which costs upwards of $20,000 per model. USCG regulations require safety items such as PFDs and flares, carrying capacity for boats under 26 feet (7.93 meters), and level flotation if swamped for boats 20 feet (6.1 meters) and under. ABYC has distributed American versions of ISO CE Standards and Recommendations...but, they are strictly voluntary. Most critically, there are no ABYC design categories to differentiate between boats of different capabilities suitable to differing sea and wind conditions.

NMMA certification in the U.S. requires only about 70% of the ABYC recommended standards. While most U.S. builders follow the ABYC standards, and indeed many exceed those required by the NMMA, they are not mandatory as is the case in Europe with ISO CE mark standards and don’t involve the cost and post-build survey inspection of ISO."
 
Ce cert for Entering the European Union? Would that include islands in the Caribbean being part of the European Union ?
 
Sounds like US builders can skimp on build safety and save money, not reflected on the pricing. I enter open ocean often and things can get ruff quick and it is my concern that the c30, no bridge, could take some heavy weather and stay afloat. Thanks gerry
 
Here is an interesting article about the levels of certification

https://itayachtscanada.com/understand- ... -yachting/

Reading the article I would say it is safe to conclude a 30 foot vessel is not going to be in the "A" category. Not built that way and not priced that way in my opinion. Category "B" maybe but more like a C+ to B-. whether or not it stays afloat will be more dependent on the skills of the captain I would imagine. Anything near a Beaufort force 6 cannot be fun or something you would do knowingly in a 30 foot boat. But that is just me.

CE European standards contain a lot of emissions and exhaust standards among others. CE applies to mopeds, motorcycles and toys as well. Not having the CE sticker does not mean it is not up to those standards. Just no need to meet the standards or pay for the certification if you are not selling in Europe.

As to pricing - our friends are taking delivery of a boat built to survive in the category "A" class. It is priced at $850,000, 44 feet long and 14 feet wide. Yes - it is in a bit of a different class.
 
I've been wondering about how to best broach this topic in these forums, not trying to be a downer. Perhaps piling onto this thread is the best way....I have a C28, not a 30. BUT, I think many concerns are similar. Since I plan a circumnavigation of the great lakes ( mainly near shoreline), it would be nice to know what my limitations really are, rating or no rating. I'm not the worrying type, concerned about doomsday scenarios, but I do wonder and would like to be more informed about what to expect and how to prepare. This is likely due to my commercial pilot training - lot's of focus on things that will hopefully never happen, but better be ready, since yours and other people's lives likely depend on your reaction. My instinct tells me that the advice won't be too encouraging. I'm hoping that the factory can weigh in on their outlook, based on the C28 design and their experience.

This is my first boat that has a fully enclosed cabin at the helm. Capsizing was never as scary, you just get pitched into the water and float away. Obviously not a major ocean-going vessel, the C28 does quite well in moderate seas. But what happens if I hit that rogue and get pushed aside, or turned around in a big following sea? If this boat turtles, how fast will it head south? How do I get out? Will the glass hold up if capsized? Certainly not going to open the push-out door or roof escape hatches against the encroaching sea. The main question is - how do I best prepare to survive in ugly conditions?

My guess is that it's best to keep the rear door and the side windows open to hasten flooding and make a rapid escape to the surface possible. But I'm hoping FM has a better suggestion. What do I do with my wife? Do I keep her inside for protection or pro-actively put her outside to the cockpit to ensure a rapid escape?

Hopefully there's some good advice, or better yet, some past experience that can be shared. I'm not letting these concerns get in the way of having fun, but the lakes can toss weather at you when you could find that there's no safe harbor for 30 or more miles. My discomfort now is that I'm not sure what to expect, or what the best tactics are, so I don't know how to best prepare. Thoughts and experiences from FM and others appreciated.
 
How about asking the question "What is the highest wave height forecast that you are comfortable with?"

I would think twice and exercise a no-go over 4 feet; but maybe other folks have different opinions.

And as an instrument rated private pilot, I've read too many aftermath reports about "continued IFR flights into conditions beyond pilot or aircraft capabilities."

Here's a clip for film buffs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etl2iEaHdYY
 
The term,"These boats will take more than the crew" is rather vague, but also having been a former pilot you had to know your personal limitations. With the technology we have available for weather and sea conditions one should take heed and know what they are willing to "live" with when cruising. Going along with what Bill said, A four footer over the bow is okay for a while, but not for the day for me or the first mate. And if I am getting hammered abeam I wouldn't want anything over 2 feet for a long duration. My wind component is usually 15 MPH and it depends on direction. Then there are times that mother nature throws you a curve and in those instances you just have no choice and you have to do your best to get through it. At that point put on the life preservers and head for safety. We have radios for a reason. If you feel that unsafe make a call to the Coast Guard and let them know what's going on.
 
While i share your concerns I worry that labeling a vessel safe in various situations would lead some captains who are not properly trained into to bad situations. Unfortunately if some people are told it will handle 15 foot waves they will go find them. But they did not factor in their skills or the possibility of a larger wave developing. A manufacturer can provide some information about structural soundness. I cannot see them providing answers to many of your questions due to concerns about misinterpretation and lawsuits.

I have taken my boat out the inlet on several occasions only to turn around without a word from the wife until after we are turned around. In which case she just looks at me and says "thank you!". I have no doubt the boat would handle the situation. But if I am at all nervous I have a duty to turn around. I will save that test for one that I cold not predict. In the mean time I do like to go out in a little rough weather to learn and improve my skills.

Some questions that you are asking are better answered during a boating safety class or hiring a very experienced captain for a day of training. It is great that you have these questions - it means you are aware and concerned about the issues. That is the most important first step.
 
Thanks for the responses so far, but you may have missed the point of my questions somewhat. Obviously one should do his best to use sound judgement and heed forecasts, but forecasts are forecasts. "50% chance of thunderstorms" can be a great day as long as you're not near one of those storms. If a T-storm pops up not far away you'll likely not out-run them.

Wave forecasts can be woefully inaccurate. Even if they are, that is the expected height of 67% of the waves. You can occasionally get one that's 50% larger.

My question, mainly to the factory folks or anyone that has any real experiences, was more about what should one expect if you do get caught out and the C28 rolls over, for what ever reason. It would be great if the cabin remain mostly airtight, and the thing just self-righted. If not, you're sure not going to open the door and swim out unless the cabin is fully flooded. It would be nice to know how long that might take, and how far below the surface will it be. Knowing this will be a great help in formulating an effective escape plan. Appreciate inputs!
 
 
I once posted some speculations what would happen if the cockpit got filled by water either due to torrential rains or by a following wave. Covered mostly drainage but did not speculate any further. Just look for it
 
Matty":32h56q3x said:
Here is an interesting article about the levels of certification

https://itayachtscanada.com/understand- ... -yachting/

Reading the article I would say it is safe to conclude a 30 foot vessel is not going to be in the "A" category. Not built that way and not priced that way in my opinion. Category "B" maybe but more like a C+ to B-. whether or not it stays afloat will be more dependent on the skills of the captain I would imagine. Anything near a Beaufort force 6 cannot be fun or something you would do knowingly in a 30 foot boat. But that is just me.

CE European standards contain a lot of emissions and exhaust standards among others. CE applies to mopeds, motorcycles and toys as well. Not having the CE sticker does not mean it is not up to those standards. Just no need to meet the standards or pay for the certification if you are not selling in Europe.

As to pricing - our friends are taking delivery of a boat built to survive in the category "A" class. It is priced at $850,000, 44 feet long and 14 feet wide. Yes - it is in a bit of a different class.
Click to expand...


The smallest new boat I can think of that is CE A Rated is right at your guesstimate. Nordhavn has a 41ft near 14ft beam that's base price starts at $699k. Add some options and redundancy electronics that a A rated boat should have and I'm sure it'll climb to 800+
 
The video's great and all, but the test is predicated on the boat being all buttoned up. The results if one or more hatches or doors are open might be different. As mentioned by earlier in this thread some operators may choose to keep something open to facilitate and easier escape if things go south. You can't predict a rogue wave.
 
This is a big help! If the weather is that ugly I'd have it buttoned up anyway - especially if I knew that was important to the righting. The Elling is a very well built boat (and not cheap). My question to the FM factory folks is simply - is it reasonable to assume that the C28 (or any other FM model for that matter) would self - right like this Elling did? Will the glass hold up? If it is, I'll damn sure have everything closed up if real bad WX hits and feel a bit less uncomfortable about it...

Mike
 
In my opinion, I would keep all crew members in the cabin. If the seas are violent enough to threaten capsizing a 30’ boat, there is no way you would ever get them back onboard if they were washed off.
My bet - as far as self righting goes - would be it all depends on the energy of the swell that hits the boat. Most likely scenario is that one swell floods the deck, and the next slowly rolls the boat - but who knows? Once a boat is turtled, it will probably stay that way.
JP
 
There has been some good information posted in this topic and a good read. I personally think that both Ranger and Cutwater are good sea handling boats for the size, well designed hull to handle moderate sea's. I don't believe the boats are designed to be any more than an inland coastal cruiser. I don't think that the design was intended for offshore purposes other then an occasional cruise during good sea and weather conditions. If Fluid Motion CE rated the boats I would "Guess" the rating to be D+ or C- but would fall into a C rated vessel. I have been in 2' seas "wind waves" with 4' swells and it is not fun in a C26. It may be slightly better in a 30 Cutwater because of the added weight and length, beam and engine hp. It's still not going to be comfortable. I made the mistake a few times of being over confident. We made a 60 mile run in 3' to 4' significant wind waves' (not swells) and when arriving in port we were relieved. It was 4 hours of steering, throttling and water coming over the top as if I was in a car wash. With 4' significant waves you are going to have an occasional 5' to 6' that makes me pucker! As far as making sure all hatches are closed, if I'm in anything bigger than 2' waves I don't have to worry about that. The hatch's are closed because if the hatch is open water and spray is coming in. My rule of thumb, cruising is a go if weather conditions are 1' to 2' significant waves with swells 2' or less. If we get caught in larger the boat will handle it but its not relaxing. I can't personally say how well my boat will handle the C rated 7' sea's because I fortunately have never had it in 7' "wind waves". The largest wind waves were 1.4 meter with 6 second period based on the weather buoy we passed, 27 kt winds with gust to 32kts. 4.5 ' with occasional 6' with white caps, following sea. Not fun! A few times the boat was heeling like an over-canvassed sail boat. I could touch the water out the helm sliding window as it heeled. My wife handed me my vest saying "put this on this is not fun!" I'm going with my boat rating as a D+ - C- and not worry about if it will upright!! I enjoyed reading this topic but I had to come back to reality. Coastal cruiser is my personal rating.
 
Well said Brian - I hesitated saying it as you did to avoid a string of posts from people that disagree but you are right on. I doubt the vessel was ever tested or meant to upright itself. That is another class of boat. It is also much more expensive. I was docked next to a couple that had sailed from europe to St Augustine FL. he came over to look at our boat. His comment was that it was a very nice river boat. Never had it put that way but the more I thought about it the more it made sense. Now it certainly is used for more than that by many and rightfully/safely so. But one thing it is not, at least by design, is a self righting cruiser. And that is ok with me as I knew that is not what I was buying at this price point.
But I did get to watch a lot of videos of self righting boats, learn about the classifications and give thought to some of the concerns. Always good to gain knowledge.
 
All closed off is the way to keep afloat, a thought i had was last resort at close range shooting the flare into window! I sure would want to be the first to try this. Lol Maybe a 20oz hammer? Maybe stay at the dock that day.
I believe the c 30 to be equal to c rated for ocean at best.
 
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