D3 Volvo Hose failure between Turbo and Aftercooler

[BB marine]

We were cruising the North Channel/Georgian Bay waters in route to the Charlevoix rendezvous when a large amount oil was found disbursed in the engine compartment. I noticed it while in an anchorage approximately 30 miles out in Georgian Bay. After cleaning up the oil and dissembling the engine shroud, Turbo heat shield I was able to locate the problem. The hose between the Turbo and after cooler had torn at the hose clamp and come loose expelling oil that may have leaked from the turbo seal or carried over from the engine ventilation system. I was able to make a temporary repair to run the boat to the nearest Marina facility Byng Inlet, Britt Ontario Wrights Marina. There were no Volvo Dealers in the Area so I decided to call the Volvo 24 hour customer service number for assistance. They referred me to a Volvo repair center that was in Little Current Ontario which was on the west side of Georgian Bay approximately 70 miles away which meant crossing Georgian Bay. I made additional repairs adding more hose clamps and adjusting what was left of the hose and planned on cruising at reduced rpm to keep turbo boost low to prevent further damage to the hose. Fortunately I was with another Cutwater and they traveled with me on the way back to Little current. We arrived at little Current and found the dealership to be closed because of the Canadian Holiday. I found the hose available on line through the Volvo store (7 day delivery into Canada). I spoke with a Volvo dealer where I winter store my boat and was told they could through Volvo's Warranty Policy get it next day to them but it may take 3 days to get it to me because Volvo would not drop ship it to Canada. When the dealer responded to my request to replace the hose I was told the Turbo needs to be removed and the Turbo was also the possible culprit of the oil. I was also told all parts were back ordered and it would be the last week of August to receive them. I Called Volvo for assistance and they responded back you need to work with the dealer. I asked about the parts availability and the Volvo Representative said all parts are available in stock but it is up to the dealer to get them. I then spoke with the dealer in Illinois and they said Volvo should be able to get them to me. The dealer from Illinois called the dealer in Canada and explained how to get the parts. Volvo customer service said there was nothing they could do to assist in getting the parts it is up to the dealer.

Good Morning Mr. Brown,

I spoke with my supervisor this morning and unfortunately, we were not able to come up with another solution to expedite shipping. We are unable to expedite the process because of the are shipping restraints due to your location. I understand that this is frustrating. Please reach out if you have any questions.
______________________________
Kind Regards,
Willough Perry
Customer Relations
Volvo Penta of the Americas
1300 Volvo Penta Drive
Chesapeake, VA 23320 USA

After 3 days of researching how to get the Available parts to me. The Illinois dealer was able to walk the Canadian dealer how to expedite the parts. No assistance from the manufacture Volvo. The Canadian Dealer informed me that they could get all the parts but it was going to take 3 days to receive them and a minimum of 1 day to do the job. This was 7 days after the failure and would be 11 to 12 days to get it repaired. Unfortunately this eliminated us from attending the Rendezvous and was cutting us short on making it back to our homeport in time for the ending of Vacation. I made further adjustments to the hose and clamps and we started back to Michigan at limited rpm reducing the boost pressure on the hose. We cruised back to Michigan without incident and are now back at our homeport in Wisconsin. The Ranger Tug dealer here is not a Volvo dealer so can't really assist in the repair. I have spoken with Volvo dealer in Illinois and they will work with me in repairing the problem in a few weeks when we have time to transport the boat to Illinois.

I highly recommend inspecting this hose. I can't get any information from Volvo as to the amount of carry over oil that should be in this hose. I have spoken to the dealer and they have been unable to get the information also. It was determined by the Volvo mechanic that looked at the hose the the oil possibly broke down the hose and caused it to fail. I will take photo's of the failed hose and post them. I will also take pictures of the repair as it takes place.

Volvos presence in assisting a repair of an in Warranty engine was surprisingly poor. The 24/7 customer service help is just a phone directory.

Ralf from fluid Motion did get involved in assisting and has offered future assistance with this issue. I thank him for his help.

 

[Chimo]

Brian,

That’s a depressing and somewhat scary story. Is this an issue that could be avoided with inspection of the hose or??

Thanks for posting

David

 

[CaspersCruiser]

Disappointing to say the least. This is not the first time that I’ve heard about Volvo-Penta’s inability or, more correctly, unwillingness, to assist a distressed USA boater having a problem with a V-P engine in Canada.

 

[BB marine]

Brian,

That’s a depressing and somewhat scary story. Is this an issue that could be avoided with inspection of the hose or??

Thanks for posting

David

David,
Any break down can be depressing during a vacation. We made the best of it and enjoyed cruising with friends. The scary and depressing component was the assistance Volvo provided. With cooperation from Volvo this issue could have been repaired quickly. The dealer was willing to repair ASAP if parts were available. All parts that were needed were sitting in Volvo's Mississippi warehouse. The disappointing issue is that Volvo passed it on to the dealer instead of Volvo's customer service stepping up. This puts a different prospectus on the extended warranty that we purchased for the D3 and the assistance that Volvo advertises.

The inspection of the hose would be an easy task. The unfortunate component to this is I did inspect the hose and clamps last fall when I saw a few drips of oil and oil splatter when I was replacing the ventilation filter and air filter and inspecting the turbo charge impeller for side and end play. I noticed the inside of turbo seemed wet with oil. I sent an email to Volvo Customer Service asking for information about the issue and the response back was contact a dealer. I spoke with the dealer and they called Volvo. Volvos response was there may be some oil there but insignificant to cause issues. I snugged up the hose clamps and felt the issue was resolved. I posted a question to this issue on TugNuts and boatdiesel.com but didn't really get any information. I ran the engine 50hr's after my inspection and tightening the clamps with no leakage or issues. I was surprised when I opened the hatch to do my pre day cruising checks and saw the oil covering the starboard engine stringer and the engine dripping with oil. I created an album Turbo hose failure with pictures. The temporary repair was sliding the hose up and adding two extra hose clamps. The picture only shows 3 clamps but there are now four clamps. The area was cleaned and completely degreased when I took photos. There are a couple pictures from last year when I had the oil drip and pointed out location.

 

[asm777]

Wow, sorry to hear that happened and Volvo's CS definitely sounds like it could use some reevaluating...

But thanks for the heads up! I'll have to make sure our Volvo tech is checking all these hoses... they noticed our fuel cooler was starting to leak and recommended replacing as failure could mean that we'd have a massive leak into our engine compartment...

We've been trouble-free for a bit now and hoping it'll stay that way!

 

[baz]

BB marine: Thanks for sharing this sad story. A real bummer. 🙁

I'm wondering if this experience is exclusive to Canada ? Living in USA I've yet to have needed to call Volvo Company for help and hope I do not get the same response, especially when under Volvo warranty.

 

[BB marine]

BB marine: Thanks for sharing this sad story. A real bummer. 🙁

I'm wondering if this experience is exclusive to Canada ? Living in USA I've yet to have needed to call Volvo Company for help and hope I do not get the same response, especially when under Volvo warranty.

I'm not sure how much Volvo customer service helps in USA compared to Canada. I do know that the dealer Spring Brook Marina in USA located in Illinois was very helpful in trying to expedite the parts for me. The Volvo dealer from Illinois told me that if a Volvo owner under warranty was disabled and parts were available somewhere in the world he could get them within 72 hours. When I called him and told him that the parts are back ordered in Canada he immediately did a search and said he could have all the parts next day to Illinois . When I called Volvo customer service and asked if they could assist in getting the parts to Canada expedited ( I said I would pay all expedited fees) They emailed back saying can not do!


To answer your question with my opinion. I believe the customer service from Volvo relies on the dealer. The 24/7 emergency call for assistance is a phone book operator. I explained my problem to the phone technician. Her response was I'm not a mechanic but I can tell you the closest Volvo repair center that can take care of you. I asked will you follow up on this case to confirm I can get assistance ? She responded "No, I have no way of doing that." After several calls to Volvo asking for assistance I was finally called by a Volvo Customer Service Representative apologizing " there is nothing she can do to assist".

The extended warranty is something that I hoped I would never use. I looked at it as an insurance policy that would protect me in a situation when I was traveling in waters far from our homeport. If this incident happened in waters close to home I could have taken care of the problem. I would not have called Volvo. I would have called a local dealer that I know and they would have taken care of it. The dealer Spring Brook Marina has confirmed they will assist in all repairs needed when I bring the boat to them. Their location is 150 miles from our Homeport in Racine Wisconsin. I winter store my boat there.

I believe I do a good job in maintaining my boat. I have an extensive list of inspections and checks which include all preventative maintenance items along with many other checks which include hoses, belts, fittings, clamps ...... with all the inspections and maintenance there is always a chance of a component failure. A simple one like a hose. Having a reputable engine manufacture that stands behind there product like Volvo gave me piece of mind when we purchased the boat. I still believe the Volvo product is a very good power plant have no regrets with the purchase. I am disappointed with what happened but even with the failure I was able to make it home under power. With that being said I don't consider it a "sad story" more like "Unfortunate"

I'm sure that this issue is not just singled out on my engine. ( Turbo Hose) I looked at a D4 and it has the same hose configuration and style hose as the D3 ( slightly larger in diameter) and easy to get to. I would recommend adding this to the list of checks. Replacement of the hose requires removal of the Turbo.

 

[baz]

Brian: Thanks for your reply.

I have a suggestion for you.

In 2003 my son and I made a trip to Goténberg Sweden to pick up my 'overseas delivery' of a Volvo XC70. I had ordered certain options for the car ahead of time and when the XC70 was delivered to me at the Volvo factory the special steering wheel I had ordered was not installed. Well, I jumped up and down about this but nothing could be done about it as the airbag system design prevent the steering wheel from being swapped. I had gone to considerable trouble to order this steering wheel during the ordering process. The upgraded steering wheel option cost around $350 I recall.

When returning to the USA after spending several weeks with son, and the XC70 whiz zinging around on snow covered roads Sweden and Norway stopping at many different places and zooming through long dark tunnels in Norway I wrote to Volvo customer Dept in California and expressed my disappointment in no uncertain terms. Volvo did apologize and actually responded in the 'right way'.... they sent me a check for around $500 as compensation even though the steering wheel upgrade was not possible.

My point here is that you should write to the Volvo Marine Customer service department with your story. They need to hear and understand the problem in servicing your failed engine. They presumable learn from these customer feedbacks. You just might reach an understanding ear or two and cause Volvo to do the right thing for you.

 

[Larry H]

It seems to me that the problem is......Volvo does not consider the boat owner to be their 'customer'. The actual customer that bought the engine from Volvo is the ........manufacturer. In this case Fluid Marine. Fluid Marine bought and paid for the engine. The ultimate owner of the engine is an annoyance and expense to Volvo. Volvo does not make any money from the owner unless they buy Volvo's overpriced parts. When a Volvo engine needs warranty repair, the 'customer' is the dealer. In that case, the 'customer' is going to cost Volvo money in fulfilling the warranty. None of this causes Volvo to want to respond and help the owner. The only ' carrot and stick' the owner has is to 'not' purchase another Volvo engine product. It definitely seems to me that Volvo needs to reconsider how they treat the owners as opposed to how they treat the dealers.

 

[Kiorana]

I don't know if this is related to the issue with your engine, but I thought I would share my experience with you to see if it might be, and also to see if any other RT owners might have a similar experience or insight. I don't intend to hijack your post, so if that's what I am doing, let me know and I'll repost this as a new post for comments, but I thought it might be related somehow.

We have a 2013 R27 that is new to us. I noticed a few drops of oil on the stringer below the air filter. This occurred after I had added oil to the engine. I had just added oil, since it seemed to need it since the oil level was at at the bottom of the dipstick, and I added about 300 mL to bring it up to the middle of the dipstick adequate zone. The next day, there were a few more drops of oil on the stringer. I wasn't exactly sure where it was coming from. The oil level in the engine was a little lower as measured on the dipstick. The following day after about a 30 mile trip, there was a good bit of oil that had dripped on the stringer and was making it's way to the bilge. The oil level as measured by the dipstick was lower, nearing the bottom level where I had first added oil. This was alarming so I inquired with the RT technicians (who I knew since we had bought the boat from RT as one of their trade-ins and we got the factory experience - highly recommended!) and they suggested the crankcase ventilation filter might need to be replaced. I checked the air filter and it was soaked with oil, so there was a significant amount of blow by that was occurring. A little bid of oil was on the turbo blades. The differential diagnosis seemed to be some obstruction to the closed crankcase ventilation system (dirty filter or drain hose), an engine with worn out rings and increased crankcase pressure, or an overfilled crankcase with excessive piston splash and increased oil vapors, There did not seem to be increased crankcase pressure as measured by the mechanics oil filter cap test (couldn't feel any pushback when I removed the oil filler cap with engine running and held my hand over it; and the RT guys had mentioned to me that as part of their pre-sales checkout of the trade-in boats they do a compression test on the cylinders to know if the engine is healthy and all had good pressures in our boat). When I replaced the crankcase ventilation filter, the rubber valve on the side of the CVS housing seemed to be a little "sticky" but after I manipulated it a while it popped open and closed like I think it should. I blew though the hose going from the bottom of the CVS filter housing to the crankcase and it was clear (I could hear the air bubble in the crankcase), so there was no obstruction there. I replaced the CVS filter (wow - now that is one pricey filter - $130) and air filter and the oil leakage was gone (I don't know if the CVS filter had been replaced at the 200 hour service and the boat was at the 390 hour mark). Yeah! - problem solved, CVS system malfunction - or so I thought.

When I changed my oil at the 400 hour mark, I refilled the crankcase up to 1/2 way mark (half way between the high and low hatched area on the lower end of the dipstick). I didn't want to put in too much oil. After about 20 more hours on the engine, a drop of oil appeared and the oil level on the dipstick was lower. The next day a few more drops of oil were present after a run and the bottom of the air filter had some oil soaked in it. At this point, and since the engine has never shown the least bit of exhaust smoke of any kind, I wondered if the issue could be due to an excessive amount of oil in the crankcase. I decided not to replenish the oil even though the oil level on the dipstick was at the lowest point (but still detectable on the dipstick). Another 20 hours on the engine and no more drops of oil or oily air filter, and the oil level has maintained itself at the same level without any evidence of increased oil consumption. I'm thinking that my dipstick is not "calibrated" to reflect the proper level of oil that is in the crankcase when the boat is in the water. I have seen some folks on other internet sites mention this possibility with their boats, but I haven't heard of this with any Ranger Tug installs of the Volvo D3 200i engine. Have you noticed any relationship of your oil drips and the level of oil in the crankcase?

My hose from the turbo to the after cooler looks fine, and I'm sure my oil drips were coming from the bottom of the air filter that had become saturated with excess oil. Perhaps the only connection between your engine symptoms and mine is the location of the oil drips.

So the Cliff notes version of my story is:
1. Could your oil drips be due to an issue with excessive blow-by-like issues related to your CVS system?
2. Is anyone aware of problems with the oil trap round rubber relief valve on the side causing issues with the CVS? The function of this valve seems mysterious to me and it doesn't appear to be user serviceable. The oil trap assembly is a breath-taking half a boat buck ($450) so I'd rather not replace it.
3. Has anyone experienced a documented discrepancy between the oil level as measured on the dipstick and the proper oil level in the engine when the boat is in the water? Replacement dip sticks are a $130 item and mine seems just fine - but perhaps a centimeter short. I have seen Tugnuts posts that Volvo indicates the oil capacity of the motor "depends" and can vary on the installation, so I am intrigued by thought that the dipstick might be just a rough guide to the level in the crankcase and on mine "low" might be just right.

Brent and Cindy Hjermstad
Kiorana

 

[BB marine]

I think that your information is right on. I have removed all components of the engine/crankcase ventilation and inspected. The filter is on my yearly replacement schedule. Normal year is 120 to 130 hours so I change it yearly (recommended every 200 hours). When the hose let go and oil leaked the engine had 40 hours after filter change. The air filter housing was dry all hoses associated with the ventilation system showed a minimal film of oil residue and charge air impeller didn't show evidence of oil. The oil was in the interior of the turbo housing. I also keep the oil level on the dip stick slightly lower then the full mark which is 1/2 quart less then the engine oil capacity. It is interesting that your oil drips are in the same location and I have thought that the oil in the hose between the Turbo and after cooler was coming from the ventilation system. After inspecting I am under the assumption that it is coming from the Turbo oil seal. I'm not sure if the seal is made of steel rings or just a tight tolerance labyrinth seal. I'm thinking the hose is damaged from the oil leaking past the seals. The one variable to this is I have had minimal loss of oil since the hose let go after 25 hours of running the engine to get back (max rpm during this time was 2180 rpm and 8.3 psi boost. The temporary repair to the hose and extra hose clamps has kept the leak to a minimum. When the repairs are made I will again follow the steps of inspections the same as you did and will be replacing the filter again as a yearly replacement.

As far as your question about the oil level I can't answer that. I keep mine slightly lower then full. The manual showed a photo of proper level if the engine sits at 5 degrees. I believe the Ranger and Cutwater install is 5 degrees ,at least that is what I was told.

I would be interested in the oil level that most keep their D3 at. I don't have blow by carry over but I have thought the possibly the oil return from the turbo could be effected if the oil level was marginally high causing some oil to leak past the seal during low boost operation.

Thank you for the information, questions and suggestions

 

[BB marine]

Brian: Thanks for your reply.

I have a suggestion for you.



My point here is that you should write to the Volvo Marine Customer service department with your story. They need to hear and understand the problem in servicing your failed engine. They presumable learn from these customer feedbacks. You just might reach an understanding ear or two and cause Volvo to do the right thing for you.

I took your advise Barry and finally receiving results. The first response was this was an unfortunate incident and we are sorry. I responded back with that's not good enough. A customer relations representative then stepped up and is assisting in getting me information and assistance from a Volvo repair center. We removed the Turbo, after cooler and hose yesterday for inspection. I will post findings and explanation of failure and repair starting a new post to give other D3 owners things to look for or check after completion of the repair. I did post a few pictures in my album.

 

[BB marine]

The 220hp D3 Turbo and aftercooler along with failed hose, 2 other hoses that connect the induction air tube to the intake manifold, gaskets, and oil lines were all removed and inspected.
Findings:
The compressor side of turbo was oil soaked with carbon build up. The end play (thrust bearing) good. The side to side play (radial bearing and seal) seemed to be excessive. Unfortunately Volvo doesn't give a spec for this??? The manual says check for excessive play. The Volvo technician called Volvo for the spec. Volvo "replace the Turbo" The new turbo had similar play. The turbo used on the D3 is a Garret Turbo. I'm going to contact Garret to get the spec for future inspection.

The impeller inspection side to side just touching housing interior of housing oil soaked


The aftercooler upstream side was oil soaked thick required solvent flushing and cleaning The hose between turbo and aftercooler was severely damaged with evidence of the hose being delaminated.

Upstream side of aftercooler oil soaked.


Hose between turbo and aftercooler (failed hose while cruising in Canada)


The removal process of these components is not easy because of the tight engine installation. The intake filter, turbo, aftercooler are all located in the pilothouse.




What caused the failure to a well maintained engine with 390hrs? I have noticed oil leaking from the hose at 70 hrs. I made inquires and was told to tighten the clamp its normal. I asked a factory Volvo representative will oil attack this hose? Answer
The hose in question is the hose that failed #466327 Hose connecting the turbo compressor side discharge to the aftercooler. Did this hose fail because of the oil present? No, that would not be a cause for failure/issue." Could excessive heat cause the hose too fail? "the silicone hoses are designed to handle heat" I told the Volvo technician that I have seen air temperatures in the compartment has high as 160F while running. I showed the technician where the air temperature sensor that I installed was located. He said it was a good location to monitor air intake temperature and if I was seeing 160F at that location that was way to high for proper operation of the engine. He said he could not say that the excessive compartment temperatures caused the Turbo failure but monitoring the temperature and adding the extra ventilation will benefit performance and reduce heat in the hottest section of the compartment.

The intake air is brought in at the Turbo and supplies cooler air in the intake area under the deck. The exhaust blower pulls warm air out reducing the temperature in the intake area of compartment by 30F degrees. I wish I would have done this when the boat had 70 hours not 350 hours.


The test run after the new components were installed was positive. Wot was 4130 19.5 kts ( Dingy and dingy motor were not on board, and we are not loaded down for a trip) Boost 28psi, High cruise speed 3500rpm, boost 26psi, 8.7 gph, 14kts, My normal cruise speed 3380 rpm, 19psi boost, 7.9gph 12.5kts, engine temperature 180F except WOT 190F, Compartment temperature with blowers running 109F. (Without 142F) Outside ambient 76F water temperature 60F.

Failure date August 6 repair date September 13th. It took Volvo Penta a month to get back to me and follow up with getting the repair done. The only reason they followed up was because I emailed a complaint of poor customer service. The customer relations representative that followed up with my complaint was very helpful and followed through making sure all parts were sent ASAP next day. I think that Volvo provides this service to all but it is up to the Volvo personal to make sure it gets done. The representative that was following up in Canada didn't do their job.

 

[baz]

Brian: Well done. Explanations you presented were excellent. Thanks for sharing and taking the time to do so.

I does seem that my advice for contacting Volvo Customer service was helpful for you. If I were in your shoes for this incidence I would have followed all your footsteps.