Deciding on full cockpit enclosure or not?

baz

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Fluid Motion Model
C-24 C
Subject: Deciding on full cockpit enclosure or not?

Many of us presumably have definite opinions on the necessity or the luxury of having a full cockpit enclosure installed.

There are many factors that people will be considering... some considered positive and some negative...

1) Cost
2) Ease of erecting and removing the enclosure's panels
3) Where to store the enclosure panels when they're removed
4) Long term maintenance: keeping zippers clean and operative, cleaning the plastic panels, canvas fading, etc
5) Possible interference when wanting to fish, troll, etc
6) Does it help with resale opportunities
7) Added bracing may be needed
8) The need for netting in bug-infested areas
9) Spoiling the view from the cockpit seating areas
10) Visual look/style
11) Added difficulty when docking with enclosure panels possibly in the way

Apart from my very first RT (R25 Classic) here in the PNW area I've elected to have full cockpit enclosures for my boats.

Why? ....

1) Adds extra real estate for passengers when weather such as rain, sunless days, wind, is prevalent.
2) More privacy when docked.
3) Provides extra safety for small children and pets from going overboard when panels are secured. My Fox Terrier 'Jake' is a 'jumper' and has no fear leaping from the cockpit if a seagull swoops down near to the boat. He can look and stare, but not jump out of the boat, as he would do so if the enclosure panels were not there. For me, this is 'peace of mind' when I'm solo with Jake, less likely to cause me to leave the helm to service his needs, no heart-attack situations for me, and can have the cabin door open... for more room for Jake to roam.
4) Can be used for extra sleeping quarters using fold-up cots in cockpit.
5) Provides for a warmer environment at times when underway.
6) Provides full protection for keeping the cockpit dry in inclement weather conditions and when in rough seas. I recall one time in my R21 EC negotiating a 4-6 feet stern wave kicked up by a commercial tug. The whole of the R21 EC nosed into the first wave and then crested and dove down into the next wave and was completely immersed in the water for long enough to fill the whole cockpit area with water had I not had the full cockpit enclosure for protection.
7) Helps people who might be having 'cabin fever'. 😱
8) Added security when docked and boat left unattended.
9) Beneficial if boat not kept in a covered slip at the home port.
10) Avoids the inevitable unwanted shower one can get when stepping onto the boat with water puddled on the Bimini. You simply do not want your invited passengers to get a water swamping moment as they step onto the boat from dockside... 'tis a bad start for the cruise event. I use my boat at times for charity and the invited people typically aren't boater types, could be celebrity types with fancy hair dos, so I don't want them having to have an unwanted water shower.
11) Can be used as an extra heated area when docked - using portable electric heater using shore power.
12) Individual panels can be unzipped and rolled up out of the way and secured easily to the top of the Bimini.
13) In addition, storing the panels is best done rolling them up tightly and sliding them down into the cave. In this way they take up very little room when stowed in this manner. Later, when being unrolled they will resist being straightened but this is only temporary as they will quickly hang straight when the plastic panels warm up.
14) When I fish, troll for salmon, I rolled up one side where I have my down rigger, and all is well.
15) I've developed a means to have my stern fenders deployed such that they are not kept in the cockpit. I swing them up outside the boat's side and use a rubber bungee tied to the bottom of the fender with the other end secured to the swim step hand rail. So when docking I simply detach the stern fenders from the swim step handrail, and they drop down to the desired position. Thus no need for cutouts in the panels to slide fenders in or out. There can be very small cutouts to allow dock lines from the gunnel cleats to the dockside cleats, etc.
16) I use 40 mil plastic panels as they are sturdy enough, and can be rolled more easily than thicker mil plastic panels.
17) The plastic panels are easily cleaned with the proper solution from spray bottle periodically to keep them looking pristine and clear.
18) Having the enclosure fully used when docked also protects the cockpit area from bird dropping and avoids other sea creatures thinking they've found a bed for the night. 😀

I had a full cockpit enclosure for my 2019 R29 CB and I can tell you, it took less than 10 mins to fully assemble the enclosure panels and not much longer to completely remove it and stow it away in the cave... and it was a strong selling point for me when I sold the boat.

One last piece of advice: Number the panels - 1, 2, 3, 4, etc with a Sharpie pen so that it's easy to know the order for where the panels go. I start on starboard side with #1 and proceed all the way round to the last one on port side. This numbering is important for the R29s as the panels slide into the pipe channel on the edge of the hard top Bimini.

Don't let the cost of a full cockpit enclosure deter you from all the benefits the enclosure can provide.

For me, I have no doubts..... and I will be having my new 2023 R25/OB equipped with a full cockpit enclosure.

Have now changed my R25/OB order from 'Hero Red' hull to the 'Light Gray' hull color and my enclosure canvas color will be a contrasting (slightly darker shade) Sunbrella Charcoal color. 😀
 
Hi Baz:

We are taking delivery of our R29 within the next moth or two. I'm curious who made the enclosure and what the rough cost was. Having owned a prior boat with this nature of enclosure, I agree with your assessments and am very interested in doing the same thing for our boat, PARTICULARLY when I learned from your post that the whole thing can be stored below.

Thank you!

Bryan and Julie of Rubicon II
 
Great list Baz,
Definitely agree with the positions you state, however have made a different decision (for now). I purchased a c-28 that had a full enclosure for the cockpit last year in the winter. I removed it last spring with the idea that I might put it back on for this winter. I have not put it back on.
My decision is based on the following:
1) Fishing and crabbing. While you can certainly fish and crab with the side panels rolled up or removed. There are quite a few elements to work around like the roof (with a tall pole or net), the panels (depending on which ones are rolled up), the supports to the rear of the boat. All magnified if more than one person is fishing or if the fish decides to swim from side to side while fighting.
2) Open air. I have the cabin space for dry, warm and cozy. I like the cockpit to be outside, even when it is cold and wet (gotta like the cold and wet boating 4 seasons in the PNW). With the full enclosure you are always at a minimum under a roof.
3) Visibility. The plastic panels are clear, but there is still some reduction in visibility especially when wet or salty. So cleaning is a must
4) Solo handling. Again certainly doable with the enclosure, just many fewer obstacles without.
5) Zip up, zip down, remove, store, reinstall, bang your head, rinse repeat. Just quicker easier without.

I see this as an issue of how you most frequently use your boat. All of what baz says is true and makes sense for many boat uses. It's a whole additional dry, warm room added to the boat. For me, part of what I want is to get on the boat and go in less than 5 minutes, fish, crab and to be outside, be in the wind and sun (or seaspray and rain) without a roof over my head.
I still have my enclosure and have not tried to sell it, because as my uses change, the advantages baz lists may become more important to me.

Chris
 
b&jsrubiconii":bmq45if0 said:
Hi Baz:

We are taking delivery of our R29 within the next moth or two. I'm curious who made the enclosure and what the rough cost was. Having owned a prior boat with this nature of enclosure, I agree with your assessments and am very interested in doing the same thing for our boat, PARTICULARLY when I learned from your post that the whole thing can be stored below.

Thank you!

Bryan and Julie of Rubicon II

Bryan & Julie: I'll post back with a photo album showing the King Marine Canvas company templating and installing my R29 CB full cockpit enclosure for you a bit later. It cost me with a 10% discount just under $4,000. I also had it designed to keep cost down by having the rear panel slope down from aft edge of the R29's Bimini hard top.... saved a bunch by doing this and still left plenty of head room for people sitting on the flip over seat on transom.... also avoided having extra bracing being needed so when fishing there was no bracing supports in the way.
 
Baz:

Your design sounds like a fantastic idea. Can't wait to see photos.

Thank you!

Bryan and Julie
 
Baz:

We're thinking a LOT of people are going to be interested in this design. Thank you for all these outstanding photos. B.O.A.T.: "Break Out Another Thousand" (x4! 😀 ) Definitely on our radar now. Do you know whether the company saved the templates?

Bryan and Julie
 
I'm sure Dave at King Marine Canvas can advise you on the templating. Good luck with your enclosure. The sloping rear panel design can save you as much $2,000. I adopted the same design for my R27/OB as well and saved a bunch. On my R25/OB I cannot use the rear slope design because extra bracing has to be used so have selected to have squared off rear as the cockpit is smaller, there would be limited head room for people on transom flip down seat, and the stock Bimini is smaller to. No matter, cost is reasonable IMO for the R25/OB as it's a smaller boat with less beam.
 
baz":1mc5nemz said:
I'm sure Dave at King Marine Canvas can advise you on the templating. Good luck with your enclosure. The sloping rear panel design can save you as much $2,000. I adopted the same design for my R27/OB as well and saved a bunch. On my R25/OB I cannot use the rear slope design because extra bracing has to be used so have selected to have squared off rear as the cockpit is smaller, limit head room for people on transom flip down seat, and the stock Bimini is smaller to. No matter, cost is reasonable IMO for the R25/OB as it's a smaller boat with less beam.
Hi Baz….do you have any pics of your R25/OB enclosure to share? I’m curious if/how a square edge design over the transom ties into the base Bimini. Or does it replace the bikini with a single section spanning the full roof?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
We also have a full cockpit enclosure for our R29S. We did not have one for our R25SC because I was so tired of dealing with canvas on our prior four Sea Rays. There were times when the sun was too hot in the cockpit or the rain was too wet, so we decided this time to go with the enclosure. We have a carribean sand hull and found the Sunbrella Linen was a perfect color to go with that hull. Because we don't fish seriously, we opted to have additional framing so our rear panels hang straight down rather than slope. The advantage is our cockpit "roof" now goes all the way to the stern which gives us extra protection from the sun when hot and the drizzle when not a windy downpour. Because of the extra roof, we often go many days without even putting up any of the side curtains.
 
Very happy with full-cockpit enclosure, year-round use. Installed a cockpit CO monitor, wondered about adding engine air intake but I expect the hatches themselves restrict air more than the added canvas. Storing panels is a hassle - I leave them installed/rolled in the summer.

/tmm
 
Agree with Baz on the reasons, and also with Diatom on how we use our full enclosure on C30. We leave it on year round, roll up in warm weather, and love the extra comfort. Just make sure not to leave it entirely zipped up for long periods or could get mildew. Would 100% do it again, and from Kings Marine.
 
mjackson1275":dbregla7 said:
baz":dbregla7 said:
I'm sure Dave at King Marine Canvas can advise you on the templating. Good luck with your enclosure. The sloping rear panel design can save you as much $2,000. I adopted the same design for my R27/OB as well and saved a bunch. On my R25/OB I cannot use the rear slope design because extra bracing has to be used so have selected to have squared off rear as the cockpit is smaller, limit head room for people on transom flip down seat, and the stock Bimini is smaller to. No matter, cost is reasonable IMO for the R25/OB as it's a smaller boat with less beam.
Hi Baz….do you have any pics of your R25/OB enclosure to share? I’m curious if/how a square edge design over the transom ties into the base Bimini. Or does it replace the bikini with a single section spanning the full roof?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm having RT not include the stock canvas Bimini for my 2023 R25/OB and will get a discount for this. King Marine Canvas will use the stock SS Bimini bracing that RT installs, and add an additional bracing that will allow the Bimini's roof to be a one piece of canvas from cabin's aft roof line to end at a vertical line to aft surface of the transom, making the aft panel of the full cockpit enclosure almost vertical (will have a slight slope to expel water easily to keep the rear plastic panel clean and free of water).
 
One of the reasons a person hesitates about having a full cockpit enclosure is the thought of the time and effort erecting it and removing it. Let me tell you from my experience, this should not be a deterrent for you. I've now had 3 enclosures made and am about to have a 4th one made. The R29 CB was by far the easiest for installing and removing the enclosure due to the piping attachment on the edge of the hard top Bimini. For the other boats with a cavas soft top, it's a bit harder and possible takes more time because the panels are zipped to the soft top. The zips can get sticky if not greased periodically and this will tire out thumb and fore finger unzipping the top of the panels from the soft top. What I've done is to use Vaseline periodically on the zips - smear a good portion along the zips and the metal finger pulls to keep them really easy to unzip. Also number the panels so they are easy to identify where they go.
 
One of the reasons a person hesitates about having a full cockpit enclosure is the thought of the time and effort erecting it and removing it. Let me tell you from my experience, this should not be a deterrent for you. I've now had 3 enclosures made and am about to have a 4th one made. The R29 CB was by far the easiest for installing and removing the enclosure due to the piping attachment on the edge of the hard top Bimini. For the other boats with a cavas soft top, it's a bit harder and possible takes more time because the panels are zipped to the soft top. The zips can get sticky if not greased periodically and this will tire out thumb and fore finger unzipping the top of the panels from the soft top. What I've done is to use Vaseline periodically on the zips - smear a good portion along the zips and the metal finger pulls to keep them really easy to unzip. Also number the panels so they are easy to identify where they go.
Good afternoon Baz / Barry. I have admired the cockpit enclosure dated Feb 2018 link on the boat named Laxey installed by a ?Vietnamese? man.
I believe he works for King Marine Canvas in the Seattle area. Is this on your R27? I have a 2023 R27LE and the boat is in Meaford, Ontario Canada on Georgian Bay, part of Lake Huron.
If this is your enclosure, did you have seperate panels made with just screens to keep out the bugs in warmer weather? Any comments or possible improvements based on your experience would be appreciated. My boat name is GRANDVIEW. Thanks. Peter Lawson cell 1 416 717 1221 peterlawson92@gmail.com
 
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