Diesel Truck Shoutout

[karmaMD11]

Hi all. We're searching for a used 3/4 ton diesel to tow our 31. I've been heavy into the Big 3 Diesel Forums and coming away more confused and frustrated than when I started. Seems any of the Big 3 Diesels have their fair share of major problems so I'm thinking I must be reading about all of the failures and none of the success stories. So this is a shout out request to all the heavy haulers out there asking what are you using to haul your tug around?

 

[Bruce Moore]

We don't tow our R-31, but here's at least one thread you can read through while you wait for more replies.

Yet another tow vehicle thread.

Cheers,

Bruce

 

[pleeson]

That's a big boat. You may want to ensure you get dual rear wheels and an exhaust brake. You might also consider going to a 1 Ton. The problems you are seeing are likely almost wholly related to this damn North American DEF exhaust treatment for pollution control which is now in all our diesels. Be nice when they figure out how to get clean exhaust without adding friggin fertilizer to it! I suspect you will end up with your personal preference manufacturer - no one is immune to these issues right now.

 

[Boont Boater]

I have a 2008 Dodge 3500 (one ton dually) service truck with one of the "new" pollution control setups. The turbo, particulate filter, and some other components which I can't remember had to be replaced, under warranty, fairly early on. Now that I am off-warranty I worry about the cost if another component starts acting up. A while ago Dodge wanted to replace my turbo but a local mechanic fixed that problem.

I really like the torque, etc. of the 6.7 liter, six cylinder engine but in hindsight I wonder if the whole diesel thing is worth it. The initial extra cost and the expense of a not-perfected technology seems to outweigh the diesel advantage. When you're not towing with a big gas V-8 the mileage doesn't have to be ridiculously bad especially if you have a light foot on the throttle. I understand that there is a robust market for the pre-2008 diesel trucks.

I have no intention of towing our R29. I don't find towing enjoyable.

Just my two cents worth.

Jeff

 

[daviduphoff]

The first big question is how far do you plan to tow your boat?

The second is do you also plan to use your truck for daily transportation?

I had a 1992 F250 Super Duty. It was the bomb. It was still a truck with none of the fancy crap on today's pickups. It had 150K miles on it when it was stolen October of 2013. I think the engine was good for another 250K. I never had a major problem with it. I replaced a few injectors, most likely all over the course of time and all the fuel lines, most likely from that bio-diesel crap but, like I said I never had a engine problem. Almost everyone I know that has a newer truck, no matter what brand has had more problems than I ever did. My father bought this truck new.

I also have a 1993 F350 Dually that I have towed with quite a bit. Hands down the dually tows better. No matter what the load. I have a dump trailer that is rated to haul 12,000 pounds and is often overloaded. The difference between the the two trucks towing it is night and day.

All that being said my insurance company gave me about $8000.00 for my 20 year old diesel truck. I think I would be lucky to get about half of that for my gas truck. If you are not going to use your truck for a daily driver $4000.00 buys a lot of fuel. The diesel got about 13 MPG with a camper and trailer. The gas one gets about 8. If you find a good value on a gas truck I might think about it. Chances are you will hoist launch your boat as no one wants to dip their shiney new trailer in salt water so the torque needed to pull up a ramp is not as important. Also if you are pulling a 31 it's not like you need the torque of the diesel to pass.

Just my thoughts.

 

[wefings]

Being a diesel truck aficionado and part time student driver , the consensus is a 1999-2003 Ford 7.3 is a great vehicle , a 2005-2007 Chev/GMC Duramax is the best bet for GM folks and the Dodge 2005-2007 are good trucks and none of these have excessive emissions systems . All of the newer trucks can have the emissions accidentally fall off [bypass] and the weak link in the older Ford and Dodge trucks is the tranny . There are tranny kits to make all of them bulletproof . For a 31 Tug , a single wheel will work, but Dually is better , long wheelbase preferred.
I have a 2005 Chev 2500[workhorse,140k no issues] , a 2000 Ford F 250 [my project "farm Truck"] ,a 1993 Ford F 350 Dually[refuses to die], a 2013 Dodge 3500 dually[best towing truck I have ever owned], A 2012 Ford that's been drydocked for a bit over a year [Ford does not back their fragile new products] .
There are so many things you can do to older trucks to make them more powerful and reliable , it can almost be , I dare say , kinda fun !
Like boating !
Marc

 

[Levitation]

Karma,
Yeah the diesel truck forums are populated by fan bios and fanatics.
First, a 31is a big load with a lot of windage. You NEED a one ton dually (3500 or bigger) to tow it comfortably.
Can you tow it with a 2500?
Sure. But you really, really won't enjoy it -and it is a risk that the load will push you around at the exact moment you need control.

Now, for towing a real load (like a 31) for any real distances, a gas engine is a non starter. It's a fuel hog and you have to have a high ratio rear end to make it pull which makes using it as a daily driver a pain. In spite of the opinion of some my experience is that the diesel makes a good daily driver.
But a dually is not my choice for a daily driver, just too big for parking, etc.
Now, I am an old GM plant engineer type so I am biased - hey, at least I admit it - towards the Chevy truck line.
I also do not believe that DEF is the end of the world or a plot against humanity. I happen to like my def truck -a lot.

Anyway, that is my experience. ymmv

 

[kskogerson]

my two cents....stated this before....have towed my R29 hundreds of miles, so far no issues. Have a diesel dually crew cab 4X4 7.3L Ford 1 ton. Many have driven this vehicle over a million miles....check it out. Don't skip the 4X4 issue, you won't get up a ramp without a 4X4 towing a 31.
Kent

 

[pleeson]

Denny, one of the benefits of a diesel is supposed to be you just fuel it and drive, with the occasional oil change your only hassle. All the DEF trucks have a LONG way to go before we can relax on a long trip using them. Put amply they are a bunch of sensors waiting to shut you down without warning or any wrong doing on your part.

 

[PhilR]

I traded my '08 Chevy 2500HD 4x4 gas engine for a new 2013 Chevy 2500HD diesel in 2013. So far...a great truck. No comparison, the diesel is far superior to the gas for towing. The DEF tank is no big deal...5 gallons every 5,000 miles and it's easy to find in 2.5 gallon ready to pour "boxes". I'm sold.

Phil

 

[knotflying]

My only problem with my 2011 3500 diesel was an issue with the Nox sensor. At around 23,000 miles I kept getting erroneous bad DEF warnings. After a one month period they finally figured out it was the downstream box sensor. This has happened to a few tuggers on their Chevys, so if it happens to you try to get them to cut to the chase and not fool around with changing the DEF fluid.
Other than that it tows my R-27 like a champ.

 

[Dale777]

For 2-1/2 years while I trailered my previous R27, I used a 2011 Chevy Silverado 2500HD 3/4 ton Diesel 4x4 (6-1/2 foot bed). Outside of repairs related to emissions, it was a wonderful truck for towing (about 9,000 miles trailering the R27). The engine in that truck is a wonderful "beast". The transmission is a beefy Allison. All the truck stops now have DEF available either at the pump or in plastic bottles, so availability is not an issue.

The emissions repairs were for: 1) oxygen sensor (twice), 2) DEF tank temperature sensor (replacement only worked for 1 week), and 3) finally an entire DEF tank with all related sensors replaced. The factory required the dealer to try #2 before having to do #3. The dealer service writer told me that was what typically happened. After he had #2 done, he said that he fully expected me to return within a week to have #3 done. So, as others have stated, the main issue with the newer diesel trucks seems to be emissions related.

Now, for comments on trailering an R31 which I now have. First, I do not trailer it, since I store it in an indoor hurricane rated building in Florida from June to December, then use it in Florida from December to June. I sold the truck to my brother for him to tow a smaller 5th wheel RV; he thinks the truck is great. However, if I had decided to trailer my current R31, I would certainly want a truck at LEAST as capable as the Chevy 3/4 ton diesel 4x4. I can't imagine trailering the R31 with a lesser truck. The R31 is a big boat in comparison to the R27 - length, beam, and weight.

 

[rick&sue]

After much research and price shopping I purchased a 2014 GMC 3500 crew cab (not a dually) to tow a R25 and possibly in the future to tow a R27. I have towed about 3,000 miles including one panic stop and one panic swerve. I am impressed with the power, the smooth transmission (it is amazing how smooth it is), brakes and handling. I can stay with traffic up hill or down hill. The Jake brake works great. The DEF fluid has been no problem (yet). So far - I'm really happy with this truck.

 

[rheimb1]

Have a few thoughts to add, a few years back 1 tons were actually cheaper then a 3/4 ton. I can't say if that is still true. And I agree with others go with a 1 ton dually! I don't have a pickup big enough to pull our R25 yet but I'm leaning towards the Dodge Cummins diesel. I pulled her back to Spokane with a 1 ton Dodge and I was impressed with the Cummins engine. I think the one thing that was really nice is the exhaust brake in the Cummins. As we descended down towards Lake Roosevelt we never touch the brakes and is was a steep hill about 7% grade. That's gold in my mind. The other nice thing abut the Cummins is you don't have to take it to the dealer to get it worked on. Cummins has made engines a lot longer than the rest combined, I think they know what they are doing. At my work we have 5 GMC 4500 Duramax engines and they have been good engines as well. We get consistently about 11.5 to 13. That's a lot of city driving with close to 14000 gvw on a high profile unit.

 

[tugnnaweigh]

I've been towing boats (currently a R25) with an uncorked 7.3 for thousands of miles (20 years) with good results. My latest vehicle is a Crew Cab F-450 4X4 so I typically outweigh what I'm towing, always a good safety factor to have.

The 450 has the ability to disengage overdrive to climb and going downhill this saves the brakes for stopping unless the grade is more that 6%.

The common thread in these towing discussions seems to be "the limits" or "the capabilities" of tow vehicles and trailers so here's where I've gotten to:

Stay away from "the limits" or "capabilities" of anything you drive or tow so you can have as easy, pleasurable, safe, efficient, worry free, safe, dependable, looking out your windshield not in your mirrors, safe, trip and arrival.

I've even put my R25 on a three axle trailer built for a R29; (quite the improvement I must say!) a lesson I learned after loosing a tire on a two axle trailer with a 28' Larson on Interstate 405 some years ago! How that one remaining tire held to get me to the shoulder I'll never figure out!

Simply put, everything that matters in my life is in my truck as we go down the road, I hope I've minimized risk every way I can. Here's to safe towing and safe boating!

 

[pleeson]

Speaking of the Ford 7.3 liter diesel - I have a 2002 1 ton 4 X 4 crewcab that to me still feels new. With the four speed automatic it is a little strained in the mountains so I tried chipping it, but now get an engine warning light every time we exceed 2500 rpm, which on the grades is often. After backing off on the gas oedal, or being able to raise a gear, the light will extinquish after a few miles. My mechanic says the chip is simply asking the injectors for more fuel pressure or volume than they can deliver, so hence the light. I don't think I'm doing any damage but with the light on its pretty tough to gauge if something bad ever does happen. Anyone have a brand/model of chip they have had better success with? Maybe it's time to throw this one away and try again, although it does seem to improve things with the boat hanging on behind. In the perfect world, and without DEF, I'd go shopping for a dually 1 ton or more with a Cummins engine, exhaust brake, and Allison transmission but even if they made it I can't afford it, and this is such a great truck otherwise! Would love some turbo and/or computer chip counsel.

 

[berniefiedler]

I have a 2011 Ford F-250 bluetech diesel. Traded in a 2008 F350 Diesel. The Bluetech is far superior with almost 50% better mileage and much more safe towing capacity . I've had zero problems other then a coolant leak. My technicians comment is the biggest problems with todays diesels is that people use them for daily transportation rather then long distant hauling. These vehicles are not made for daily short trips.

 

[kskogerson]

For pleeson: I have a variable chip in my 2001 7.3. I cannot recall the manufacture. It does allow for various settings depending on the load and fuel requirements. I would imagine Banks has this and it could be what I currently have.
PS It's nice not having to deal with DEF!

 

[pleeson]

Thank you KSK! I'll do some asking around at our local auto parts distributors. I think mine has three settings only - I'm using the tow variant but away right now so can't retrieve the company that makes it.

 

[tugnnaweigh]

Pleeson you're fine, that light comes on for me too anytime I boot the engine, (if it's the same one, lower left corner, looks like the outline of an engine) my mechanic tells me it's just the pollution sensors not liking the extra fueling, once you pull throttle they settle down and like you say it shuts off. They won't put you into limp mode or anything like that and any chip is going to cause them to fault, they are a bit too sensitive, somewhat like residential smoke detectors!

For engine advice, this is the third 7.3 I've set up, one non turbo and two turbo. I've always changed the intake first, followed by the exhaust and while these two modifications don't' seem to make that much difference the chipping is where the diesel really opens up!

As, far as I know, there's currently two types of chips, both of which I've used; the inline type you plug in that interrupts the signal and newer type that actually reprogram the ECM, Engine Control Module. The caution I hear on the newer reprogramming ones is that some Ford stealerships (get it?) are dedicated to finding these types of chips in order to block warranty claims and generally blame any problems on that they can't fix.

My current chip is the Bully Dog, a five step instrument that reprograms the ECM and can also read and erase codes. I'm on the second step, light tow, (8,000 lbs. which doesn't seem all that light to me!) I have in the past set it to heavy tow but took a miles per gallon hit and the EGT, exhaust gas temperature got higher than I'm comfortable with. I've also set it to performance just for fun while not towing and laid rubber all around town but had to dial it back down because tires are about $300 each!

Anyways, EGT and RPM is how I operate my 7.3s, if either get too high I just pick another gear and go a bit slower.

Here's to safe towing and safe boating!