Differences in Volvo Penta D3's?

[Toki]

This has been touched on in a couple other threads here, but I haven't seen definitive answers, so let's see what this post produces.

Many FM models use the Volvo Penta D3 engines. This engine is available in a range of HP ratings, from the D3-110 to the D3-220 (which is in my R27). In all the literature I read about the D3, I'm not seeing what the difference is in the versions. the 110 HP appears to have exactly the same guts, turbo etc. as the 220 HP.

Can any of you explain this?

 

[misinger]

Software, hardware is the same.


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[bluestreak]

Toki,
I think I read somewhere the D3-220, on our R-27's, were left over from the Cutwater.
Bill

 

[Toki]

Software, hardware is the same.

Really? So SW limits the engine to only half it's capable HP in the D3-110? So can the D3-110 double it's HP with a simple SW upload? I'm having a bit of trouble believing that.

 

[scross]

Just the software.
My Yanmar 4by2-150 is the same as the Yanmar 4by2-180 except for the software and the 30 less HP mine delivers.The Yanmar software is not something you can just go to a dealer and order. They will not reprogram the ECU to a higher horsepower because if they did no one would spend the extra $$ for the higher HP engine to begin with!
I assume Volvo is the same.

 

[Toki]

Wow, that's fascinating! So if it's simply a matter of SW restricting output on the lower HP models, then that brings up other questions. I'll continue to use the D3-110 and the D3-220 as examples.

So basically, the D3-110 is never pushing more than half it's capability, even at WOT. Assuming the D3-220 is the most HP they can get from this particular design, then my D3-220 is running much nearer it's max capability. Based on engine loads and wear & tear, am I correct in assuming that D3-110 will FAR outlast the D3-220 (unless I only run it at <110 HP)?

 

[snydzy]

I think most will find this article very informative.... and it will address the specifics of diesel programming and horsepower produced...give it a read and it will help sort out what’s really going on with This poorly understood concept: BSFC
https://www.sbmar.com/featured-article/ ... turn-them/

 

[BB marine]

The HP ranges for the D3 are 110 hp to 220 hp all models use the same internal and external components. The 110 hp and 150 hp are derated to 3000 rpm WOT and the 160 hp to 220 hp turn 4000 rpm WOT. The fuel burn, hp and torque of the complete line of D3's are much the same up to 2000 rpm. Above 2000 rpm is where the additional power and torque is added to the higher HP models. If you have a 220 hp Volvo and do most of your cruising at 2250 rpm your theoretical longevity would be the same as the 110 hp running at 2250 rpm. If you are running your 220 hp at 2850 rpm for most of you're cruising your theoretical longevity would be the same as the 110 hp running at 2850 rpm. The fuel burn is very close at this rpm approx. 5GPH. Now above 3000 rpm the D3 starts developing HP and burning fuel to make that HP. I use my fuel burn to calculate how much HP I'm using. Which calculates to the demands I'm putting on the engine. With my 220hp D3 1 gph of fuel produces 18.03 HP. My max engine cruise is based on fuel consumption not rpm to try to maintain some longevity. I also believe on this small displacement diesel Hrs means nothing it is gallons burned that should be used for calculating longevity. If longevity is calculated at 8000 gallons per liter. 2.4 X 8000 =19200 gallons of fuel. Burning 2.5 gph average the D3 should have 7600 hrs of longevity, burning 5gph average, 3840 hrs of longevity . I find this is very close to my average fuel use with my D3. My high cruise is 8.5 gph and my slow cruise is 2.5 gph. After cruising all day my average GPH is 5 to 5.5 GPH. The key to get this longevity I believe is (1) The engine can turn Max rated RPM +100rpm when normally loaded. (D3 220hp =4100rpm, burning 12 GPH) The manufacture, Volvo recommendation is continuous operation at 10% less than WOT. In my boat fully loaded, my WOT is 4000RPM. If I put the throttle to 3600rpm and run all day and get into some wind, current and waves my fuel consumption at times 10 to 10.5 GPH I'm using over 180 HP, over 80% load and loading the engine down. The next day I go out and it is calm, little current no wind and I'm cruising at 3600 rpm my fuel consumption is no higher than 9 gph under 80% load 162 hp ( my reason for not using RPM for continuous running). I don't like running over 8.5 gph for extended running which is approx. 70% load. Average is 3360 rpm +/- 50 rpm (based on conditions) I usually bring the throttle up to 3350 and see what I'm burning and adjust rpm.

I have read a lot of articles about this after owning this little D3 power house. I have owned many Gas powered boats and this is my first diesel. A 26' non planing hull boat with a 2.4 L engine. My first boat was a 18' Thompson with a 2.5L 120hp with many in between, I a 26' Searay with a 5.7L 270hp which was a bit under powered. Now I have a C26 with a 220 hp 2.4L diesel in a boat that was advertised to cruise over 20 mph and 25mph WOT. It does do that at a cost of running the engine at its extreme limits. In reality the D3 in the C26 gets great fuel economy at 7.5 KTS and cruises comfortably at 13KTS anything above that it uses a lot of power from a small displacement engine to push it. I think of my 220 hp as a continuous duty 160 HP engine. I think Ranger/Cutwater under powered the C28, C26, R31,R29, R27, and R25. R25 =D3 220hp, C26 and R27 = D4 260hp, C28, R29 and R 31 D6 370hp. With those Hp changes the best of both. Great fuel economy at hull speeds and comfortable high speed cruising with increased engine longevity. My thoughts and opinions on this subject.

 

[tlkenyon]

If I understand correctly, my D3-150, which is limited to 3,000 rpm, is actually built to run at 4,000 rpm without the damage that would come from over-revving...and it is only the software that is the limiting factor to the 3,000 rpm limit. Consequently, running it at 2,850 to 2,900 or even 3,000 will impose minimal wear-and-tear i.e., at 3,000 rpm it is actually operating at 66% of the higher-rated D3 WOT (3,000/4,000). Thus the de-rated D3 should have a much longer lifetime than the higher-rated D3's?

 

[snydzy]

If I understand correctly, my D3-150, which is limited to 3,000 rpm, is actually built to run at 4,000 rpm without the damage that would come from over-revving...and it is only the software that is the limiting factor to the 3,000 rpm limit. Consequently, running it at 2,850 to 2,900 or even 3,000 will impose minimal wear-and-tear i.e., at 3,000 rpm it is actually operating at 66% of the higher-rated D3 WOT (3,000/4,000). Thus the de-rated D3 should have a much longer lifetime than the higher-rated D3's?

Again, you must understand that the amount “FUEL BURNED” is the amount of “HORSEPOWER PRODUCED.” That is the COMMON DENOMINATOR, not ENGINE RPM, and NOT the actual rating of the engine. And, what makes the engine produce a given amount of horsepower is how the propeller loads the engine.

 

[misinger]

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[misinger]

The HP ranges for the D3 are 110 hp to 220 hp all models use the same internal and external components. The 110 hp and 150 hp are derated to 3000 rpm WOT and the 160 hp to 220 hp turn 4000 rpm WOT. The fuel burn, hp and torque of the complete line of D3's are much the same up to 2000 rpm. Above 2000 rpm is where the additional power and torque is added to the higher HP models. If you have a 220 hp Volvo and do most of your cruising at 2250 rpm your theoretical longevity would be the same as the 110 hp running at 2250 rpm. If you are running your 220 hp at 2850 rpm for most of you're cruising your theoretical longevity would be the same as the 110 hp running at 2850 rpm. The fuel burn is very close at this rpm approx. 5GPH. Now above 3000 rpm the D3 starts developing HP and burning fuel to make that HP. I use my fuel burn to calculate how much HP I'm using. Which calculates to the demands I'm putting on the engine. With my 220hp D3 1 gph of fuel produces 18.03 HP. My max engine cruise is based on fuel consumption not rpm to try to maintain some longevity. I also believe on this small displacement diesel Hrs means nothing it is gallons burned that should be used for calculating longevity. If longevity is calculated at 8000 gallons per liter. 2.4 X 8000 =19200 gallons of fuel. Burning 2.5 gph average the D3 should have 7600 hrs of longevity, burning 5gph average, 3840 hrs of longevity . I find this is very close to my average fuel use with my D3. My high cruise is 8.5 gph and my slow cruise is 2.5 gph. After cruising all day my average GPH is 5 to 5.5 GPH. The key to get this longevity I believe is (1) The engine can turn Max rated RPM +100rpm when normally loaded. (D3 220hp =4100rpm, burning 12 GPH) The manufacture, Volvo recommendation is continuous operation at 10% less than WOT. In my boat fully loaded, my WOT is 4000RPM. If I put the throttle to 3600rpm and run all day and get into some wind, current and waves my fuel consumption at times 10 to 10.5 GPH I'm using over 180 HP, over 80% load and loading the engine down. The next day I go out and it is calm, little current no wind and I'm cruising at 3600 rpm my fuel consumption is no higher than 9 gph under 80% load 162 hp ( my reason for not using RPM for continuous running). I don't like running over 8.5 gph for extended running which is approx. 70% load. Average is 3360 rpm +/- 50 rpm (based on conditions) I usually bring the throttle up to 3350 and see what I'm burning and adjust rpm.

I have read a lot of articles about this after owning this little D3 power house. I have owned many Gas powered boats and this is my first diesel. A 26' non planing hull boat with a 2.4 L engine. My first boat was a 18' Thompson with a 2.5L 120hp with many in between, I a 26' Searay with a 5.7L 270hp which was a bit under powered. Now I have a C26 with a 220 hp 2.4L diesel in a boat that was advertised to cruise over 20 mph and 25mph WOT. It does do that at a cost of running the engine at its extreme limits. In reality the D3 in the C26 gets great fuel economy at 7.5 KTS and cruises comfortably at 13KTS anything above that it uses a lot of power from a small displacement engine to push it. I think of my 220 hp as a continuous duty 160 HP engine. I think Ranger/Cutwater under powered the C28, C26, R31,R29, R27, and R25. R25 =D3 220hp, C26 and R27 = D4 260hp, C28, R29 and R 31 D6 370hp. With those Hp changes the best of both. Great fuel economy at hull speeds and comfortable high speed cruising with increased engine longevity. My thoughts and opinions on this subject.

Agree with underpowered statement. I do know that boat builder worked closely with Volvo Penta and accepted their recommendations for power for each model. The difference in price between a D3 and a D4 is only a couple of thousand dollars on 200k plus boats. I don’t think savings per unit built was consideration. It looks like all their new boats now come with more power. Thank you for such a thoughtful response to this subject matter. We have a 2016 R27 with a D3 200 and I would have loved a D4 260 or 300 !


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[Toki]

Great discussion here, you folks are clearing up this mystery for me. Thanks!

So the consensus it, exact same engine 110 HP to 220 HP, just tuned differently via SW for fuel consumption, HP, and RPM limits.

This begs the question: can a D3-110 be turned into a D3-220 with a simple SW change? As mentioned above, Volvo would frown on this because it blows the price differentiation on the various models. So I figured someone out there must be doing this behind Volvo's back, right? Did a little snooping, and sure enough, several companies will "chip" your D3 to greatly increase power. Here's a statement from one of them:

With the P-Tronic PT-A-64239 tuning box, you can exploit the full potential of the diesel 220 Marine 220 hp engine in your Volvo Penta D3 Series. Its power increases to 268 hp (+ 22%) and its torque is boosted by 19%. All while cutting of the boat consumption by 15%.

No, I'm NOT planning to do this to the D3-220 in my R27, but such claims do lend credence to the "same engine different SW" argument.

 

[scross]

Yes, there are quite a few "performance chippers" out there that have chips for both the Volvo and Yanmar marine engines. Of course this would void your warranty. But I've occasionally wondered if any RT or CW owners have chipped their engines to gain HP. Probably none that would admit it!

 

[Chimo]

I also find this topic interesting. The d3 - 150 at 3000 rpm delivers the same torque as the d3 - 200 at 4000. At Brian points out, that’s simply a matter of fuel burn to achieve higher rpm = higher hp. Run at higher rpm by burning more fuel and your engine will wear out faster. As has also been pointed out, the engine is the dumb part of the equation. Think about the others:

R-25 vs R27 vs C28. We have three different hulls and though one may be a lengthened version of the other that additional length and associated weight distribution will have made a difference. The C28 is a really different design. Adding hp to any variant will probably not bring about a linear result considering hull design only.

Reverse gear. I haven’t looked at the reverse gears in the three variants. Are they the same? Maybe someone else can do the homework. If they are different then that must be taken into account when it comes to the most important factor - the propeller.

So simply running the same prop at a higher speed isn’t a good solution. Prop slip could well increase to the point where overall efficiency is very bad and you’re simply burning fuel to churn excess water. The ability to increase diameter is possible but on our R-25 the bottom of the prop is well aligned with the bottom of the skeg. That’s for good reason. Apart from losing protection an increased diameter in this design is not generally a good solution. So, we increase pitch and perhaps cupping to take advantage of the higher power available. That’s going to be a good deal of trial and error. Simply propping to reach rated rpm isn’t the most efficient solution.

In the end if you want to increase power just for those odd occasions when you want that little extra speed then think about the cost and time involved. On the other hand, if you want to run your d3_150 at 3000 rpm for a while you will still get less wear and tear and use less fuel than a d3-200 running at 3200. If you really need to go faster it may be time for an outboard but remember, we all own a compromise.