Electrical Wiring Problem on my R-21

M

markm

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
158
Fluid Motion Model
C-24 C (Sterndrive)
Vessel Name
Mark Twain
Okay, this is going to be a long wiring question. Please forgive the length. First I had to replace the four pin mast plug because the inner black drum that has little brass screws that hold the wires developed a long crack. As a result two of the wires were loose and the running lights flickered on and off. It took a while to figure this one out.
Next I order a replacement from Ranger Tug. The entire unit came. This includes both the male end that fits the mast and the female end that fits on the roof of the pilothouse. The part that needed replacement was on the mast (the make plug).

I very carefully replaced the wire to the EXACT holes they were in to the new plug, I re-assembled and tried to plug it in. This four pin plug has three smaller and one pin is slightly larger than the other three. I went to plug in the male to the female and the large pin was too large for the old female plug.
Next I removed the female plug and replaced it with the new female plug. Again, I VERY carefully ensured the wires when into the EXACT same holes.

I buttoned everything up and tested. Now the following is happening. 1. When you flip the switch for the anchor light, nothing happened. When you press the switch for running lights you get the mast light, anchor light, red and green running lights, but not the fantail light.

Obviously I got the wires crossed somehow. The combinations are endless.
The question is, how do I chase this down. Needless to say I am at a loss. Is there a way to test which wire is which with a meter? Also, is there a way to determine if one side is correct and the other side is not? I am not an electrician, so I am stumped. Any help you be appreciated.
 
Darn, this is hard sometimes. I had a message ready, was previewing it, put the cursor in the preview area (stupid, I know) and started typing to make a change. SHAZAAM! Everything disappeared. Nothing I tried would bring it back. Anyway, I try again.

Obviously R21s are not all wired the same. Our 2007 R21-EC, for instance has no stern light and the anchor/masthead running light are one-and-the-same as allowed by the COLREGS Navigation Rules. In that configuration the only difference between anchoring and running is that the side markers are switched on for running and are off for anchoring. As such, that means only two wires, the + and the -, run through the connector to our white light.

For a quick start, I would take each wire out, one-at-a-time, and replace it making sure good contact is being made. If you have some insulation holding one from making contact, or if one of the wires broke while working with them you will not get what you expect. It happens.

Failing in that, I would recommend that you indicate the model year of your boat and the colors of the wires on each side of the connector in another message (under this same post). Maybe someone with a boat of the same series can get you going in a hurry.

I would hope that the colors would match on each side of the connector but I know that what should be done is not always what is done. From your description it appears that your connector has a "pass through" for the stern light and the side markers. Is it possible you originally had two wires in one of the contacts in the connector? It almost sounds like the stern light and the side markers should have been combined. Is it possible there was a short "jumper" of some sort that may have been lost in the process?

Anyway, if no one can give you specifics some of us can probably give you some basic 12 VDC debugging tips. But time is on your side if someone can give you the straight dope right off.
 
Hi Mark M. Does the new plug set that you have now installed have a metal outer body? If so, you may have one or more of the screws that hold the wires in touching the outer body. Depending on the install, this could effectively ground or make hot one or more of your wires. Also, because of the precise nature of those types of plugs, you might want to make sure that you do not have even one single stray wire strand that is now crossing over. I have found these types of plugs to be quite frustrating in the past. I suspect that you may not have crossed the wires (especially w/ the care you took to make sure that they all matched the original set up), but that something went sideways or made contact when you closed up your install. I would carefully pull each apart separately to check the installations.

If you do not find anything wrong w/ the install, you should get a test light or a volt/ohm meter to chase down the connections.

Let us know what you find. Good luck,and good hunting.
 
Sam, thanks for the response. What does the following entail? "If you do not find anything wrong w/ the install, you should get a test light or a volt/ohm meter to chase down the connections."

What do I look for with test light or ohm meter?

Thanks again

Mark
 
Hi Mark. Sorry for the delay in response. I have been busy, elsewhere. To answer your question, you can use a test light (TL) or a Volt/Ohm Meter (vom). I prefer the vom. The ability to test continuity will be valuable here. You should be able to get one from an electronics store (Radio Shack). A test light should be available at an auto parts store. You should also get a couple of jumper wires w/ clips on each end and a roll of 16ga or larger wire long enough to stretch from your battery to the mast. If using a TL, the ability to test grounds would be done by connecting the TL clip to a positive power source and then use the probe to test grounds using the light to know whether you are successful.

These next steps can be overwhelming if looked at all at once. I recommend starting at the beginning and only look or try to do one at a time. They will be manageable that way. I apologize if these steps are too simplistic or complicated. Having not met you, I am not sure w/ what your expertise level is.

First you will want to find a solid ground that leads back to the negative side of the battery. If you do not have a ground nearby, a roll of wire connected directly to the negative battery post would work well. It would also leave no doubt about your ground. Connect the negative side of your vom or the clip on the TL to the ground.

Unplug the mast plug.

Using the vom, in the continuity mode or the TL connected to a positive power source, turn off all running light, anchor light, etc. circuits. Determine if you have a good ground in your boat side plug. Test each socket until the vom reads 0 and makes noise to show a good circuit if your vom has an audible in it or the TL illuminates.

You will also want to check if the mast is independently grounded or if it is grounded through the plug. To check this, connect the vom negative side to your known ground. Check continuity on all sockets of the mast side plug. If one of those has continuity at 0, the mast is independently grounded. This will make things easier later. If it is not independently grounded, you will need to determine which wire is the ground before proceeding. The proper way to test this w/ a TL would be to connect the clip end to a known positive power source then test each socket until the TL illuminates. That will be the ground.

If the mast is NOT independently grounded, we will need to figure out which of the mast wires is the ground. We will do this by reverse testing the mast side wiring. Because the ground is the only common between all of the circuits on the mast side, the way to tell if you have identified it correctly will be if all lights illuminate when positive power is put to the ground wire. THIS SHOULD ONLY BE DONE AFTER YOU HAVE TESTED ALL THE CIRCUITS AS IDENTIFIED IN THE PREVIOUS PARAGRAPH AND ARE SURE THAT THE MAST IS NOT INDEPENDENTLY GROUNDED. IF THE MAST IS INDEPENDENTLY GROUNDED, SPARKS WILL FLY AND FUSES MAY BE BLOWN WHEN YOU TRY TO PUT POSITIVE POWER TO THE MAST GROUND WIRE THAT IS INDEPENDENTLY GROUNDED.

If you prove that the mast is NOT independently grounded, connect the positive jumper to the mast side socket you think is the ground. Then take the grounded jumper or end of the grounded wire from your battery or the connect the clip end of the TL to the ground and use the probe end of the TL and put it into each of the other sockets. You will have the correct ground wire and socket when you can place the grounded wire from the battery or TL in each of the other sockets and get some part of your mast lighting or TL to illuminate without moving the positive wire that you placed in the suspected ground socket. This may take multiple attempts to narrow in on the ground. If some but not all of the different circuits can be lit, you will not have correctly identified the ground. Keep at it until all of the different light applications on the mast can be lit w/ out moving the positive feed to your ground socket. I hope that this is not too confusing. Once the mast ground has been properly identified, get a piece of paper. Diagram both sides of the plug sockets. Note and record your wire color and location.

Change your vom from continuity to DC voltage measurement.

Next, on the BOAT Side of the plug change your clip on the TL or the negative clip on the vom to the grounded wire from the battery. Turn on your anchor light. Determine which socket on the plug activates the TL or shows voltage on the vom. Note and record which color wire feeds that circuit.

Turn off the anchor light, turn on running lights. Repeat anchor light steps.

Turn off the running lights, turn on third circuit if applicable. Repeat anchor light steps.


If you have done this first round correctly, you should now know how and under what circumstances your power arrives to the plug.

Now, jumper your known mast side ground to the battery ground. Then, turn on any one circuit. Take your jumper wire and jump from the known hot circuit on the boat side plug to any of the mast side sockets. Note and record on your diagram what is activated and what color wire goes to that socket.

Repeat until all circuits on the mast side have been identified.

When you have completed these steps, you should be able to just reconnect the wires to the right sockets to have everything work correctly. This may be the long way around the barn, but it is the only way that I know to completely understand the layout of the wiring.

As I stated previously, be sure that there are no stray wires or that no part of the socket or socket screws are touching the outer body of either side of the plug.

BTW, the same steps can be used when having problems w/ running and turn signals at the junction between truck and trailer when towing.

Let me know how it turns out.
 
OKAY NOW I AM REALLY STUMPTED.

When I flip the switch for navigation lights, the red and green go on, the mast light goes on, the stern light does not. The anchor light does not go on when the switch is in either position.

At both the female and male sides of the plug there are four wires. One Black, One Red and Two Gray.

SHOULD THE WIRES MATCH UP TO THE CORRESPONDING PLUG PINS?

Also, does the BLACK of the RED wire go into the largest pin?

GOING NUTS HERE.

Mark
:evil:
 
Here is the latest.

I removed both sides of the four pin plug. I connected the wires together and used wire nuts. I connected color to color.

I then removed the foredeck light bulb and found corrosion. I clean the connections off.

Next I checked the stern light, clean the connections and the bulb is okay.

The red and green work. The mast light comes on with the red and the green. The stern light does not come on.

When I toggle the switch to the anchor position, the anchor light comes on. Also the stern light does not come on in this position either.

The foredeck light works.

I checked ALL the fuses and everyone seems okay.

Does anyone know where the stern light get wired into the switch. Is the wiring not connected to the mast wiring?

If the stern light goes to the fuse panel I need to find out if the connection is broken somehow.

ANY SUGGESTIONS?

Thanks

Mark
 
don't know if this will help you in your quest..

on my '05 the lights work as follows:

anchor - top mast light only
running - red and green and stern and the light on the top of the fixtue mid-mast (above the foredeck light)
courtesy - the 2 cockpit lights and the light on the bottom of the mid-mast fixture
 
Jack,

My 21 is set the same way. What I am trying to figure out is where is the stern light wired to. Does it go from the stern to the switch panel in the pilot house?

Thanks

Mark
 
I probably shouldnt say anything at all due to my not owning a ranger tug yet but not entirley sure the stern light should come on when you turn on your running lights white light fwd colored lights on sides to show folks your attitude at night.
 
just a quick refresher...

"Power-driven Vessels

Vessels of less than 20 meters in length should show red/green sidelights (or a combined bow light), a white sternlight, and a white masthead light located in the forward half of the craft. Vessels of less than 12 meters in length may show red and green sidelights (or a combined bow light) and an all-round white light in lieu of separate masthead and sternlights. Vessels of less than 7 meters with a top speed of less than 7 knots may, in lieu of normal running lights, show an all-round white light and, if practicable, red and green sidelights (International Rules only). There are distinguishing lights for towing vessels, fishing vessels, pilot boats, air-cushion vessels, and other special types of vessels and vessels in special situations. Be sure to check the Navigation Rules for proper light locations and ranges of visibility."
 
so how is the stern light wired on the tug? come on or not when the running lights are turned on on this yacht? that would explain why I have never seen them on anything I have owned due to short length of craft. 🙂
 
Again, we have a later boat.

But unless the intermediate-height white light you have mentioned is a 360 degree light and has no blocked sectors (not likely since it has to at least have the mast in the way) the stern light should be lit when running. I suspect Ranger took the simplification of using the anchor light as the 360 degree white running light to save cost.

Actually, I prefer it since it reduces one more chance to get a citation for a non-working lamp. But I do carry a copy of the COLREGS with me in case some local sheriff's deputy is not fully up on the law.

One suggestion I would make is to get a piece of wire and run it directly to the stern light from the battery. You may find that power is not the problem, but grounding. And I do not envy you if you have to track-down wires in the hull of the boat. Ours are essentially all in the overhead once the power and ground get from the breaker, up the stainless pole at the sink, and above the removable panel. If I have one, I have them all, right at hand.
 
On my '05 the wires for the stern light run along the starboard side (under the gunnel) and into the pilothouse near the switch/breakers, they are very accessable. The R-21 Classics are very different from the "EC" boats. The "classics" are very simple as far as wireing and systems go...no fridge, no wallas, no A/C, no running water, porta potti only, few have anchor winches and even fewer have thrusters.

The stern lite and the front lite are both 180 degree. If you want to use the anchor(top) as an all-round lite you could, but the other 2 would need to be disabled. However, I'd rather just stand on the roof to change a bulb rather than have to lower the mast to reach the top fixture.
 
Jack,

Can you tell me where the stern light wire attaches to your switch panel, or where it is wired in?

Thanks

Mark
 
Mark,
I'll try to get some time free in the the next day or so.
 
Thanks Jack,
 
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