Engine Oil Analysis?

[Gin]

In the past, I've hung out on the famous everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about oil forum, Bob Is the Oil Guy (.com). I got interested in the Blackstone oil analysis that everyone on that forum seems to use. I've never actually had the oil in our cars analyzed, but I came close. With our diesel engine in our Ranger, I think it might be worthwhile. I know the first analysis will be skewed by the extra metals from break in. But over time, it could give a good idea of how things are wearing, etc.

Just wondering if anyone here had used Blackstone Lab's or a similar service for oil analysis and considers the test (at $25 a throw) worthwhile.

- Gini

 

[Levitation]

Send me the 25. I'll put a dab on my finger, roll it between the finger and thumb, and send you a report of whether it is time to change it, or not.

There, I'll bet you feel better already. :mrgreen:

OK, levity aside. Oil reporting makes sense when you are:
1. Operating a twenty five million dollar engine in an advanced military jet fighter, or an expensive Boeing airline fleet, or the world's largest coal mining trucks, or a herd of M1A Abram's tanks in the afghanistan desert..
2. Operating a zillion engines in a trucking fleet and doing the oil changes based on oil condition. The dollar savings can be enormous.
3. Or . . . . errrr . . . . darn, can't think of anything else.

One has to keep in perspective that the guys on Bob-Is, have a hobby.
That hobby is talking about engines. Bragging rights is getting 25,000 miles between oil changes and posting the analysis slip to prove it.
You do not want to do that to a boat engine that is not run daily. The little secret (they don't mention) is to save the money that doing two or three analysis will cost you to pin point when it is finally time to change the oil - and just change the oil on a schedule.
The savings from not buying multiple oil analysis will pay for the oil change.
Follow your engine manual on when - unless you are actively cruising you will not put enough hours on the engine and will end up simply changing it once a year.
I have diesel engines here on the farm that are over 30 years old, have more than 6000 running hours out in the fields in a choking cloud of dust, and simply have the oil changed in a schedule. They are still running. Your boat engine will outlast you if maintained on a regular schedule..

 

[Gin]

Denny, you are right. I know you are right . . . it's probably why I've never done the analysis for the cars (even though I've gotten the free kit for sending it in at least twice).

If I were to do it, it wouldn't be to extend oil changes. I tend to change early, rather than too late. My interest was more for the analysis of the mechanical operation. And a couple of things in particular. The new Volvos on cold start up are kicking out some white smoke for the first few minutes. Everyone associated with the factory that I have asked about it (Kenny, Capt Mac, and maybe Andrew) has said they all do it, that it is from too much fuel at startup, and Volvo is working on it (software fix). Oil analysis would be an interesting way to watch that to see if it is a problem as the engine gets some real hours on it. My oil is also looking a little high (only a little) on the dipstick. I am working with Kenny on that, but obviously if anything is raising the oil level, as opposed to it just being more visible to me now that the oil has taken on that black diesel color and is finally opaque, oil analysis would tell me exactly what it is.

Still, for most purposes, our use on these tugs is light enough and oil changes infrequent enough that oil analysis probably isn't money well spent. So you are right (sigh of disappointment, because I have the curiosity gene).

I'll put the $25 bucks in the mail to you . . . 😀

- Gini

 

[Levitation]

Yeah, the analysis will tell you if you have fuel in the oil. That is important to know.
Your nose will tell you that also - if the amount of diesel is enough to raise it on the dip stick.
Keep a written and measured record of the oil level each morning before you start. Use a ruler to get a reading to the 1/32 of an inch. If it is rising, shrink wrap the boat, put in the mailbox, and return to sender.
White smoke when it is cranking is fuel vapor. All my tractors do that. Of course the tractors belch black smoke like Old Faithful the instant they do fire up, so any miniscule white vapor disappears - along with the immediate view of the countryside.
My Cummins in the boat blows white vapor when it cranks without starting immediately.
( ferslugginer german junk ECM that cost me thousands of dollars to fix and still is only about half right, mumble, mumble).

 

[ozoner]

I do an analysis once a year on my boat (twin gas engines). I feel it is worth it to catch potential trouble.

About 6 years ago I was looking at a boat that appeared to be in good condition. The engines ran great, although they were a little grungy. I asked the owner if I could pull out an ounce of oil from each for analysis before we signed on the dotted line and he had no problem with it. I gave him a deposit.

Results came back the next week with slightly high iron and high copper on the starboard engine if I remember correctly... Anyway, the interpretation from the lab was that there were some bearings (con-rod, crankshaft) experiencing significant wear.

I provided the owner with the report and told him I was not interested unless I got a large enough discount to do a bottom rebuild on the starboard engine - he wasn't interested, and politely implied that I made it up as a tactic to get the price down 🙂. I said thanks, got my deposit back, and went on my way. Three weeks later he seized and spun a crankshaft bearing on the starboard engine while on a test drive with another potential buyer, requiring a full bottom end rebuild. (he was nice enough to call and let me know that the report was spot on, and to get the web address of the lab).

I spend $55 each year on my current boat for analysis, and intend to continue doing so.

 

[knotflying]

Ozoner,

You are spot on with your observation. I used to do an oil analysis on my plane engine at every change since I thought it was important to know of a pending engine issue before it happened since this could be a life threatening situation. It is also important to do them regularly so you can spot a trend. I am not sure if an oil analysis is as critical on a boat engine that you own and plan to keep. Would you tear down your engine because you may have a problem or would you wait until it raised its ugly head. I think 99% of us with Sea Tow insurance would wait until the problem occurred and then deal with it. Proper preventive maintenance is a must, but (IMO) an oil analysis may be overkill if you already own the boat.
Mike Rizzo

 

[trailertrawlerkismet]

I've used Blackstone, they are timely and efficient. I used them so I could track trends in the report from one to next so I was comfortable that there was consistency. I never saw a great deal of change from one report to the next. only slightly. The ancillary benefit is having the reports available if and when you decide to sell your boat. I used the report as a selling point for the buyer of our last boat. If anything the report just reduces a prospects objections, making it easier to sell your boat....especially if you put a lot of hours on your engine.

Jim F

 

[ozoner]

I agree, it is probably overkill for a boat. But as others have said, I like the trend info. And if I can catch a problem like water contamination or fuel infiltration or metals in the oil before something bad happens, all the better. If an analysis came back for high metal levels way above the trend line, I actually WOULD think hard about tearing down the engine or at least investigating further. That metal doesn't come from thin air - something is wearing abnormally, and I would rather do a leisurely rebuild over the winter than have it die in the middle of the summer and lose out on the fleeting Seattle beautiful weather.

I rationalize it away 🙂. It is good data to have, and it isn't any more than a decent bottle of scotch each year.

 

[Gin]

This has proved to be an interesting, and educational, thread for me.

As for the white smoke we get when we first start up, I don't have any idea if is is vapor or unburned fuel. I'm basing my statement that it is on what Kenny and Capt. Mac both told us when we did our orientation on the boat. They seemed sure it was unburned fuel and it sounded like Volvo was already looking in to it. I've tried to read up a bit on diesel marine engines, and my understanding is it could be either. I'm going to start paying attention to how it rises, and dissipates, and maybe stick my hand in it to get a better whiff (it sure SMELLS strongly of diesel from the cockpit), as Nigel Calder and Peter Compton's marine diesel books advise.

I will probably do an analysis early on out of curiosity, and perhaps then annually or so. The cost isn't prohibitive, especially if I'm doing my own oil changes, which I will be. The trending seems interesting, and having the reports to show to a surveyor or a new buyer seems worthwhile. Given my curiosity gene, any decent rationalization will do. 😉

Great info everyone. Thanks.

 

[TonyM]

Have you thought of doing an oil analysis on the transmission/gearbox say once a year or two?
There is not much oil in the gearbox so I just change it annually being in a marine environment.

Where I used to work I had over 1,000 gearboxes to monitor and oil analysis dictated when we would replace the oil on the critical ones that used 25+ gallons of lube oil. Smaller ones were tested every couple years.