Fixed Fire Extinguisher or access port: R-29

[Mike & Heather]

Hello:

I recently bought a nearly new R-29 and the insurance company has come back to me asking that all the "Recommended" items in the survey list be completed. The troublesome one is a recommendation for "Fixed fire extinguisher per ABYC A-4.5.2 for a provision for an access port to discharge a fire extinguisher w/o opening the primary access for the engine".

Has anyone run into this issue? Any suggestions if you have? AN Access port sounds much easier and cheaper.

Thanks

Mike
R-29 Tug Time!

 

[SlackwaterJack]

I've never heard of requiring a fixed fire extinguisher or a fire extinguisher access port on a diesel boat ... gas yes, but diesel ?? Did you tell the insurance co. that it's a diesel engine?
In the past I have heard of an insurance co. telling someone they needed power ventilation for the engine compartment ..until they were informed that it was a diesel engine. So, it may be that they just automatically default to "gas engine" specs, and unless you point it out to them, they will require things that you may not need.

 

[abcandjrc]

It appears the problem is with the surveyor, not with the insurance company, per se. Perhaps you should enquire as to why he made the recommendation. He seems to have confused "nice to have if you can afford it" with "you can't be safe unless". "CYA" comes readily to mind. The same happens thousands of time a year with "Home Inspection" surveys. Both groups of "professionals" now have pre-programmed "recipies" for their surveys on their computer and can crank out tons of useless paper to prove how valuable are their services. The problem now is that the insurance company has been awakened and they will do their best to have you "correct" his "recommendation" to "fix" a "defect".

I can see some advantage to having installed engine room fire protection, regardless of fuel, but I would not consider it a necessity. After all, The U. S. Coast Guard does not require it, and they are the ones who determine the legal safety standards. It also begins the slide down a very slippery slope.

We had Halon in the engine room of our Atlantic 44. Looks good on paper. However, without having automatic kill solenoids for the engines, they would have ingested and exhausted the Halon in seconds (and kept on running). We had those, which obviously also required automatic sensing and discharge of the system. Can you see the $$$$$$$$ flying out of the boating budget? (Actually, I seem to recall Halon is now prohibited except for recharging existing systems.)

Co2 can do the job a bit better, but the engines will even use a lot of it before they choke off, so the installation must carry much more gas than would normally be required to extinguish the fire. The bottles are huge and heavy compared to Halon, and the costs are as high in the long run.

Dry chemical systems make a mess and I suspect will also do internal damage to the engine if it is running.

Fixed systems are also generally installed with annual inspection tags, which if not maintained are subject to fines on Coast Guard inspection even if the system itself is not required. The slope gets steeper......

If you install an extinguisher port, it will be a lot cheaper. But beware that they then will probably specify that you will have to carry dedicated extinguishers with X-number of cubic feet of extinguisher medium. Probably still cheaper, but something else to deal with.

I don't envy the pleasure of the next few rounds in the fight. I'd do some research, maybe starting with the ABYC paragraph he quoted. I suspect it is only a recommendation, not a requirement, for ABYC approval of construction. It may apply to commercial use, or to conditions other than your use as a pleasure boat. But I think I'd also shop for a new survey and a new insurance company.

Look here for a similar survey:

http://www.captfklanier.com/documents/p ... survey.pdf

 

[RProffer]

I think CO2 systems were outlawed many years ago also - at least in the Navy. The system would fill the space with CO2 and suffocate the occupant before he had a chance to get out. That happened a couple of times. I remember having to disconnect and remove the CO2 bottles from those systems.

The R21-EC has a Fire Port on the engine cover. Mine is a 2010 model year. I don't know if the other models have a Fire Port. I would recommend, if after ensuring the insurance company requires the Fire Port, contact Andrew about recommendations for installing a Fire Port on your boat. He should be able to help you with location and suggested parts. A Fire Port should be simple to install and inexpensive. West Marine has one for $14.99.

An automated "Fire Extinguishing System" is not practical for that "engine room" due to space concerns. The cost would be outrageous.

Please let us know what your insurance company and Andrew have to say.

 

[thataway]

I believe that the Ranger Tugs are on the National Marine Manufactuers Association certification list. This means that they fulfill ABYC standards. That should be enough--I would ask the factory about the question about an access port. I cannot think of any boat I have owned which had the external extinguisher access port--but several have had Halon type of extinguishers (and engine shut downs).