Fresh water accumulates in aft bilge in my new R-27/OB

[baz]

Subject: Fresh water accumulates in aft bilge in my new R-27/OB

This issue has been ongoing ever since owning my R-27/OB. It bothered me to the extent I asked RT factory to check this issue out when it was taken back to the factory for some other post assembly work. They presumably did a thorough job with spraying the boat down in some manner to see if there were any leaks and none were found.

The boat is kept in salt water and today I examined the aft bilge only to find at least a 1" deep fresh water sitting there. The 1" is insufficient to activate the auto bilge pump. A few weeks ago I had gone to the trouble of completely removing all the fresh water from this section of the bilge to the extent it was bone dry. The idea was to see whether more fresh water would accumulate in this bilge area. For two weeks I checked now and then and this bilge area remained bone dry.

Today after some weeks of last checking I checked this bilge area again and found 1" of fresh water there.

Where on earth is this coming from I asked myself ?

1) First, it's fresh water and not salt water so this water is not coming through the hull or hull ports and no-one as far as I know is spraying salt water on the boat.

2) For past week its been raining quite hard with plenty of wind about.

3) My boat is in a covered slip with bow in.

4) The aft end of the boat is covered vertically by the dock's roof but is exposed to rain that can fall onto the very aft section of the transom if windy. This is noticed as the top surface of the grill cabinet is wet with rain droplets.

5) I began my search for the fresh water entrance to the bilge area by looking into the very aft area of the cockpit's center locker. There's a bulkhead at the aft section of this locker that the ski tow bar is bolted to. This bulkhead has a 3/4" seep hole at its base to allow water aft of this bulkhead to flow into the bilge. I place my hand and down into this aft section that extends back to the well in the rear platform that the F300 engine is bolted to. I found water there and gently splashed it toward the seep hole and sure enough water flowed through into the bilge where the through hull port is that feeds salt water to the wash down pump and the toilet. Hmmmm, could this be where the fresh water is coming from ? If so, how does the fresh water get into this very aft section ?

6) I checked the transom well where the hydraulic lines exit to then goto the engine steering mechanism. This well has its own drain and had just a smattering of rain water in it. I don't see that any water in this well could make it into the very aft section I describe in 5) above.

7) I now looked closely at the ski tow bar's bolted base plate on the bulkhead and noted drops of fresh water were on the bulkhead surface and some on the ski tow bar's base plate. Hmmmm, could rain water falling onto the retracted ski tow bar on the transom allow water to flow down to the bilge area.... I think at this time it's possible.

8) As there were plenty of rain droplets on the top surface of the grill cover I also wonder if rain water running off this surface could somehow make its way down to the bilge. To find out I raised the grill's cover lid to force the rain droplets to flow backwards and off to the water gutter at the cover's hinge area. I then looked into the cockpit's center locker and at the base of the ski tow bar's bolted plate and sure enough saw some new water droplets on the base plate.

So now my guess is that rain falling on the aft section transom area can find its way down to the very aft area of the cockpit's center locker and that this water can end up in two places; one being the very aft section behind the bulkhead that the ski tow bar is bolted to and more directly into the very aft section of the center cockpit's locker and forward of the bulkhead that the ski tow bar is bolted to and where the auto bilge pump is located.

I'm not that worried about this fresh water accumulation at this point as the aft bilge pump will take care of it if the level gets much above 1". However, if the boat's aft section is exposed to rain I will have to expect that it will find its way into the bilge. Thus, anything I care to stow in the aft section of the cockpit's center locker best be something that is not affected by water; such as a couple of larger fenders. With two larger fenders in this section I can place other stuff and be comfortable they will not get wet.

For other R-27/OB owners I would ask if they also are seeing or have seen the fresh water accumulating in the aft bilge and if so, what are your thoughts about the reasons for this as I mentioned here ?

Thanks.... 🙂

 

[NorthernFocus]

It's possible that it is simply condensation. Will only show up during times of high humidity/rain/fog. Cold water on outside of hull, warmer moist air ... condensation.

 

[Boatagain]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t it the very rare boat that has a completely dry bilge all the time?

 

[baz]

It's possible that it is simply condensation. Will only show up during times of high humidity/rain/fog. Cold water on outside of hull, warmer moist air ... condensation.

I really don't think condensation is the cause as there was far too much fresh water to be just condensation. The forward bilge aligned with the head enclosure was bone dry as I would expect given my description given in my OP.

Based on my observations as stated in my OP I will be covering up the grill cover as well as the nearby ski tow bar cap with a water proof material to see if the issue of fresh water (likely to be rain water IMO) getting to the aft bilge happens again when there's more rain and wind. More rain and wind is forecasted for coming weekend. I will of course be drying out the bilge beforehand so that it's bone dry and that will serve as my baseline. 🙂

 

[baz]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t it the very rare boat that has a completely dry bilge all the time?

I would agree with the "all the time" for sure.

In my case the bilge had been bone dry until the recent constant heavy rains and wind.

 

[jagizzi]

I am dealing with the same issue with my new R-23. It is clear that the water is coming in under the cockpit hatch seals. I am going to try another layer of the hatch tape to see if that might solve the problem. Water is coming in under 2 of the 3 hatches.

On these new boats it should be possible to expect dry bilges as we don't have the prop shaft seals to worry about. Really, if we are getting sea water in there it is an indication of either severe weather with waves coming over the aft end of the boat, or intrusion from the raw water through hull. There are no other ways for sea water to get into the boat.

With regards to fresh water, rain, intrusion I would think that this issue would be a long ago solved problem.

I am in the process of designing and making a cover for the aft of the boat that will divert rain water to the outside of the boat.

I am of the opinion that with these new designs we should be able to expect bone dry bilges for the most part.

 

[jagizzi]

I figure that I can get ahead of the water intrusion into the cockpit bilges, for me the worry is the leak from the topsides in the forward bilge that contains the shower sump. There is no drain in this area and water would continue to acculumate until I manually remove it. I am more worried about mold than the actual water. This issue might have to be solved by RT as I have no clue how to go about finding, and then repairing, a topsides leak.

 

[baz]

jagizzi:

I'm not getting rain water overflow from the cockpit hatches scuppers at all. The aft section seen from inside the cockpit's center locker and the transom platform that the F300 is bolted to is a vastly different design than for the R-23.

I get absolutely no water in the bottom of the cockpit side lockers. If I were to get water in these lockers the large aft located 3/4" seep holes would drain the water to the center bilge area very quickly.

The forward bilge aligned with the head enclosure has remained bone dry since the boat was delivered to my on August 16, 2017.

 

[baz]

Was down at the boat today.

1) I soaked up the fresh water from the aft bilge and it's now bone dry again. The section aft of the aft most bulkhead that sits under the rear platform also had fresh water in it. If it get to more than around 1" deep it will flow into bilge area where there an auto bilge pump via a large 3/4" seep hole located on the center line. I soaked all of this fresh water up as well so now the two sections are bone dry.

2) I again examined all possible places where driving rain could find its way to the bilge in question.

3) The possibilities are: a) ski tow bar, b) hot/cold shower chromed hatch door surround and c) around the corrugated pipes that house the electrical wires for the F300 and the 9.9 kicker motors.

So long as there's no heavy driving rain/wind I will be expecting the bilge to stay bone dry.

Another alternative would be to stern in at my slip to completely protect the aft section of the boat from any chance of rain/wind causing water to land on the aft section of the boat. In this way I can determine if the cause for fresh water in the aft bilge is as a result of wind and rain.

 

[baz]

Well, I STILL have this problem even after having a full cockpit enclosure installed. The enclosure panels cover the complete cockpit area and the back panels drop down and cover the transom grill area completely. The only exposed area at the stern is now just the engine, the swim step's sunken sump with central drain and the corrugated conduits carrying wires to F300 and kicker motor and the hydraulic lines to the F300.

The panels drop down over the chrome rub strips all around the hull surrounding the cockpit.

So how on earth does fresh clear water get down into the aft bilge area I ask ?

It has to be rain water as best I can figure as the water only appears in the bilge after its been raining and with some windy conditions.

I'm at a loss now where to check for this water intrusion. 🙁

I need some ideas here from others... :idea:

 

[gsc3]

Have you been running on-board AC? Condensation from the AC should drain via a through-hull, but if the hose is blocked, the water can connect in the bilge. Had that experience on our Cutwater-24/ob.

 

[baz]

Have you been running on-board AC? Condensation from the AC should drain via a through-hull, but if the hose is blocked, the water can connect in the bilge. Had that experience on our Cutwater-24/ob.

There's no A/C on my boat.

 

[tburnham]

Hi I have a 2017 Cutwater 242
My bilge scuppers do not drain fast enough in my boat so when I wash the cockpit area my bilge fills with water. The water enters the hatches by flowing up and inbetween the fibreglass lip and the foam seals. When I pull the boat out of the water next I will check to ensure the scupper outlet flaps works correctly. My boat is in a boat house so it doesn't get rained on. Although I'm curious about the tow pole and if that could enable water ingress.

 

[BB marine]

I found the cockpit deck drain hose split on my starboard side thru hull fitting. I always had a small amount of water build up in aft section of the bilge after a heavy rain Approx. 1 gallon ( water would be sitting in the tunnel area and weeping into engine compartment. I have a full enclosure so the cockpit stays 90% dry but some water does leak thru and drains via the deck drains. The problem was always there. Heavy rain ,water in the bilge. I finally located the problem. When the factory installed the drain hose to the thru hull with 2 hose clamps one of the hose clamps was not on the hose barb( of the thru hull) all the way. When the clamp was tightened the drain hose split so when water would drain to the aft it leaked. The other problem was the hose would fill almost all the way up at that fitting because it dropped down just before the thru hull and then had to flow up to drain. Most of the water drained into the bilge. The hose is tough stuff to work with ( very stiff ) I replaced the hose, installed both clamps insuring full contact with barb and rerouted the hose to have proper fall .Problem went away. They are great boats just lack quality control during assembly. Good luck in your search !

 

[1Harrison]

Check your deck lights in the cockpit. On our R-29S we had water in the storage lockers and after many searches realized the deck lights have a small indentation in the top of the lens. Upon inspection we found the light was not sealed well and the indentation acted like a funnel during rain and wash down. Resealed the lights and problem solve, however was not easy to find.

 

[baz]

Per RT's feedback I'm going to now check for leaks and/or small water drips at the stern shower water connections and the hoses leading up to the sink. If there are leaks in these two areas the leaking could be more apparent when first turning on the fresh water pump as that would be when a sudden water pressure happens.

I do place my fresh water pump off when leaving the boat.

 

[baz]

Well, things I discovered today change the equation, so to speak.

1) The water that accumulates in the aft bilge directly under the cockpit's center storage hatch is salt water and NIOT fresh water.

2) I turned of the fresh water pump several times to pressurize the fresh water lines and no leaks could be observed.

3) I keep my raw water thru valve open which is immediately adjacent to the aft most bilge pump. I could see no leaking at the thru valve or where it joins the hull.

4) I operated the toilet several times to draw water thru the thru hull valve and the raw water strainer and found no leaking anywhere.

5) My next test will be to check the raw water wash down pump for leaks. The pump is located on the inner bulkhead of the cockpit's starboard locker and is easy to access and observe.

6) I will be placing a heavy dry towel across the bilge midway between the two aft bilge pumps to maybe establish which end of the bilge the water is coming from.

So my checking for this water intrusion is ongoing at this time..... sigh.

 

[johnniethek]

Barry,
I think I'm going to nickname you "Sherlock" for all the superb sleuthing you're doing on this!
JtheK

 

[baz]

John: I must admit, I do enjoy mysteries..... This one has me stumped at this time, but I'm determined to track it down even if it means I sleep in the cockpit with my feet in the bilge waiting for them to get wet. :lol:

Like all tough mysteries, it takes patience, determination, foot-work and sometimes cunning to catch the culprit.

I may have to setup a Nest remote camera and have a battery operated water sensor alarm in the bilge and ask 1st Mate to stand watch for me.... :lol:

 

[seanlisa122]

Had a similar issue on my Islander 28 sailboat. Drove me crazy until I finally tracked down the leak. You will find it eventually. Keep us posted. Good luck!!